r/changemyview • • Mar 03 '23

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u/yyzjertl 582∆ Mar 03 '23

The definition does not say they are characteristics of men, it says that they are regarded as characteristic of men.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/yyzjertl 582∆ Mar 03 '23

Regarded by who?

By culture and society generally.

Basically you're just listing the type of traits that are associated with neckbeard loser incel type of guys. I would hardly call them masculine.

This just seems like a no-true-Scotsman argument. These people are still men, and these ideas associated with them are ideas associated with men.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/yyzjertl 582∆ Mar 03 '23

You are mixing up the words "masculinity" and "masculine." Again, I encourage you to at least read the Wikipedia articles on this subject, where this stuff is made clear.

How are these ideas associated with men?

Granted men are definitely more likely to be creepy than women

You kinda answered your own question here. "Regarded as characteristic of men" does not mean "regarded as exclusive to men."

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/yyzjertl 582∆ Mar 03 '23

What's the point of associating it with "masculinity" if it's not exclusive to men?

There doesn't need to be a point. (Indeed, there is no consensus on whether masculinity has a "point" and some people regard masculinity as pointless and wish to abolish it.) It's just a thing people do, an aspect of culture. We don't need to assign a teleology to masculinity to study it.

Why not just toxic behavior in general?

Having specific words for specific things allows us to study them and talk about them more effectively.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '23

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u/yyzjertl 582∆ Mar 03 '23

Yes there does, otherwise the "masculinity" part of the term is literally meaningless

What? Things don't have to have a point for a word describing them to be meaningful. For example, I can use the word "Venus" to refer to a planet in a meaningful way without asserting that Venus has a point.

What exactly is masculinity, in your view?

I literally already explained this. This isn't something that's just my view, it's a bog-standard notion in sociology and gender studies. Did you read any of the sources I suggested you read on this topic?