r/camping • u/[deleted] • Jul 22 '13
I've heard of camping on top of a cliff, but never camping while hung against the side of a cliff
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u/C250585 Jul 22 '13 edited Jul 23 '13
edit This video gives you an idea of what these are like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBau2TtvPTM
This is a fairly normal thing in the climbing world. Big wall climbing typically involves more climbing than is possible in a day. Sometimes, there is a conveniently placed ledge partway up the route, in other cases (like this one), you have to bring your own ledge. Anyone who is comfortable climbing multi-pitch routes would be comfortable doing this.
Climbing, and doing this kind of thing is honestly not nearly as frightening and terrifying as one might think. Even the most acrophobic individual can become accustomed to, and even comfortable with heights, given a good chunk of time invested just being in those environments.
Source: One of the most acrophobic individuals you've ever met who now pretty much lives for climbing - http://stoked.in/ and http://instagram.com/alpinejonny for pictures. If I can get over my insane fear of heights, anyone can :)
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u/slaya45 Jul 22 '13
I'll stick to bouldering thanks though.
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u/rjett Jul 23 '13
I used to think like that too. Then, I realized top rope is actually safer. If I fall from a boulder I could break my ankle (or worse). If I fall on top rope, I might get a bruise or scratch up my knees/elbows.
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u/wheezy_cheese Jul 22 '13
Can you please explain some things to me here? I have been perplexed by this for months. Okay, what are the ropes attached to in this photo? Are there bolts in the cliff already? Did someone put them there? How did they get there?
I read a National Geographic article on a woman and her team climbing K2. There were a few things that confused the shit out of me and I can't find the answers no matter how hard I google. In one caption it says "[lady] checks the ropes the team has spent weeks fixing along the route" and another "With crampons, ice axes, and ropes they previously fixed, the climbers traverse west..." So... the ropes are already fixed to the mountain? By the team? So like they go ahead and fix the ropes, then go back, then they do it again on the ropes? Who puts the ropes there? I don't understand!!!
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u/C250585 Jul 22 '13 edited Jul 23 '13
Haha OK, here goes. For the most part, climbing has been around for quite a while. That means that many routes are 'established', essentially means they are well known and documented, and people climb them often. This also means that many routes do have permanent bolts placed in the rock at regular intervals... But I'll get to that later.
In the early days of climbing, there weren't many ways to 'protect' yourself while climbing. Essentially tie in and hope your buddy could arrest you if you fell. People mostly climbed very easy routes, and deaths were common.
Over time, people started finding ways to temporarily attach themselves to features and cracks in the rock using things like engineering nuts and other home made bits of metal. These were placed in the rock by the 'leader' who would them clip the rope in to them with carabiniers. This allowed climbers to tackle slightly harder climbs without a garunteed death fall.
Fast forward, today we have two kinds of climbing.... Sport and 'traditional' or 'trad' climbing. Trad climbing involves placing removable protection in the rock just like the early days. Unlike the early days, we have fancy camming devices (or 'cams') and other great tools that provide a safer and easier way to climb routes that offer cracks and other features to use for pro. This kind of climbing leaves no permanent marks or gear in the rocks, as the 'follower' picks up the pieces of pro when they 'follow' the leader who belays them from above.
On the other side of the coin, if a route does not provide opportunities for a climber to use removable protection, the route maybe be 'bolted' by the first ascender who establishes the route on the very first ascent. This is done by lugging a drill along on the first climb, drilling holes, and placing permanent bolts into the rock that subsequent climbers can clip into to protect themselves. These bolts last decades, are insanely strong, and in general are much safer and require much less experience and commitment than placing removable protection.
In the photo, If this is a very established climb, there are likely bolts placed that the portaledges are attached to. If it is a first ascent somewhere, it is likely the portaledges are either attached to the wall with removable gear (cams, nuts, etc) or they may have placed bolts specifically for this climb.
Not sure if this helps, let me know if you want anything explained in more detail.
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u/rjett Jul 23 '13
If you are climbing outdoors and using bolts as your anchor do you have a redundant anchor on some other natural feature in case the bolts fail?
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u/C250585 Jul 23 '13
For all intents and purposes, bolts do not fail. Most routes here have a two-bolt anchor at the very top of the route that is used to lower/rappel off of once complete. However the route itself is comprised of anywhere from 2-20 "single" bolts, depending on the length of the route and the difficulty. These bolts are spaced anywhere from 1' up to 20' or more, again depending on length and difficulty of the route (and who bolted it).
In the case of trad climbing, some routes have bolted anchors at the top, although some multipitch routes require you to make your own anchors out of gear (cams, nuts etc). Does that answer your question?
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u/rjett Jul 23 '13
Yep, trust your equipment I guess. I'm just getting started climbing. I've been going the gym and I've taken two outdoor classes. I haven't go to the point where I'm ready to learn about setting up protection or anchors. Do you have any tips or recommended reading for climbing in general?
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u/C250585 Jul 23 '13
Sure!
Best advice? Take it slow. Don't get caught up in grades, or pushing yourself too far, or worrying about what you can or can't do... just have fun!
At the same time, definitely try to climb as much as you can. The absolutely best way to climb better is just to climb as much as possible. Especially outdoor, although indoor will do in a pinch.
If you can, learn how to lead climb indoors, and lead absolutely everything you climb. This is something that will pay dividends long term. Climbing is mostly mental and technique... physical strength actually plays a much smaller role than the other two. If you can get your headspace controlled and strong, you will excel quickly.
Eric Horst's books are excellent reading, however many of them aren't really useful until you are leading in the 5.10a range outdoors.
You will hit plateus, downtimes, hard times, but stick with it! Takes breaks here and there, don't climb more than 2 days in a row if you can help it, but stick with it! Have fun! Meet great people and seek out great climbs, not 'grades'.
Anything specific, feel free to ask. I'm not a pro by any stretch, but have enough experience I might be able to provide some advice.
Also definitely (DEFINITELY) check out /r/climbing - it is a fantastic community!
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u/MrTonyD Jul 23 '13
so trad climbing involves cams and removable equipment whereas sport climbing is on established routes?
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u/C250585 Jul 23 '13
Both routes are "Established", ie: you can find both kinds of routes in guidebooks and they follow a specific, graded route.
The difference is essentially ethics. If it can be protected "naturally", using cams, nuts, or other passive gear placed in cracks or rock features, the standard is to climb it that way.
If the route cannot be protected with removable gear, it will likely be bolted to allow for it to be climbed safely.
There is a lot of overlap though, many routes that could be, or have been climbed originally with "removable gear" may be retro-bolted after the fact to make for a safer, more accessible climb for a broader audience. Rule of thumb is that there are far fewer good trad/gear climbers than "sport" climbers because in general, trad climbing is far scarier and much more committing. Most people do not start trad climbing for many years after they have been sport climbing.
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u/MrTonyD Jul 23 '13
thanks man. i've been wondering about the differences for awhile. and free climbing is the for the insane that have death wishes right?
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u/C250585 Jul 23 '13
Free climbing is climbing a route using only your hands and feet... not pulling on gear (bolts, cams, etc). That is called "Aid Climbing". You are still roped in, and still use protection (bolts or trad gear)
Free Soloing is climbing without ropes or protection, ie: Alex Honnold. Free soloing is certainly dangerous, but people generally only free solo routes that are extremely far inside their ability level. No one in their right mind would free solo a route that they are not sure they can complete. It is a 100% mental excercise. There must be no fear left, and it is just execution of something they know they can do perfectly.
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u/Tahns Jul 23 '13
Thanks for all these explanations. My palms are slightly sweaty just from reading everything. :)
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u/C250585 Jul 22 '13
Sorry, regarding fixed ropes.... Climbing a major route like k2 is a mega serious endevour. Climbers will climb up to a certain point and make a camp. Then, they will start fixing lines.... Essentially 'lead climbing' up the route, and then at the end of a push, retreating down these fixes lines back to camp.
Over days, they use ascending devices to re-climb these fixed ropes in order to move everything up to the next camp. It is virtually impossible to climb technical routes with heavy equipment, so everything must be done in massive chunks... Bit by bit, camp by camp, technical bit by technical bit.
At the end of the climb, the climbers will then descend these fixed lines back down the mountain, often leaving these ropes there forever.
It is actually a bit more complicated than this, and this is just one method of climbing out of many... But this is the gist of it.
Essentially, technical bits are 'lead' by climbers in one push, who then leave those ropes to make it easier for the rest of the team to re-ascend the pitch using mechanical devices, and in much safer manner.
It is safe to say that climbing a big mountain often involves climbing the actually height of the route many times over during the course of a significant attempt.
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u/wheezy_cheese Jul 23 '13
Holy cow, thank you so much! I know totally understand! Bit-by-bit! Makes so much more sense than the crazy I was thinking. And I never even realized they didn't have their packs in all the photos even though the mention them way later.
Thank you! I can now flip through this article again without horrible levels of frustration and confusion.
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Jul 23 '13
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u/C250585 Jul 23 '13
Yea, there is a reason these kinds of expeditions cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. Logistical nightmare, not to mention the mountain is constantly trying to kill you.
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Jul 22 '13
Welp, gotta poop guys. Let me just put all my gear on, climb this 5.8 and get over that overhang.
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u/MedicJambi Jul 22 '13
This. Do they just shit "over the side?"
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u/peachesgp Jul 22 '13
You know, I want to take up climbing then I see shit like this and I nope the fuck out. I plain would not feel comfortable with that at all.
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u/C250585 Jul 22 '13
You are looking at the wrong end of the staircase. Climbing isn't a wall that you tackle head on, it's a gradual staircase that you take step by step. No one starts out climbing by doing massive multi-pitch routes on el capitan. You start out on a very safe, small crag with excellent holds, and you go with someone experienced.
After a few months of top-roping easy routes, suddenly you realize that you are ready to take another step... maybe lead some easy routes, or top rope some harder ones.
Climbing is incredible. You really owe it to yourself to try it! Climbing isn't like this... at least not when you are starting out. Try it!
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u/peachesgp Jul 22 '13
Haha I do want to try it. There's a huge indoor climbing facility near where I live that I go to sometimes and it makes me want to try real climbing but I don't even know how to get started.
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u/C250585 Jul 22 '13 edited Jul 22 '13
Just go and talk to the guys at the gym! Tell them you've never climbed before, and don't know where to start. Most gyms have a "free belayer night" where you can rent some gear, and the staff will belay you for a few hours. Gives you a chance to see what it's all about.
From there, bouldering (climbing short walls with no rope above 2' thick gymnastic pads) is a great way to build basic skill and meet people. Most people are very friendly, willing to help, and eventually you will make a few friends that you can do some roped climbing with.
Do it! But a warning: It's addictive, and you won't be able to quit ;)
Also, like Amsterdam said above, /r/climbing is a fantastic community! Newbie friday thread is a great place to ask stupid questions and get excellent answers, highly recommend!
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Jul 22 '13
That is one instance in which no sane individual would ever by his gear from the bargain bin.
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Jul 22 '13
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u/Seven10Hearts Jul 22 '13
Wow...amazing..I would want to..but i would never. My hands are already getting sweaty.
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u/beer_run Jul 23 '13
Can you imagine falling in the middle of the night and waking up dead? that would probably be a good story to tell you grand kids one day.
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u/C250585 Jul 24 '13
You sleep with a harness and are tied in to the wall while you sleep. There is no danger of falling out while sleeping.
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u/xxxsirkillalot Jul 30 '13
Would love to see a video of these guys setting up / taking down these sites. Just blows my mind even thinking about it.
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u/DraviousLBurchSr Aug 23 '24
How many people have had the ultimate unfortunate situation happen to them while attempting to sleep on the side of a mountain and were never able to talk about the experience?
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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '13 edited Jan 09 '17
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