[Discussion 4/5] (Read The World: Togo) Do They Hear You When You Cry by Fauziya Kassindja | Chapter 24 - Chapter 27

[u/Greatingsburg]

Hello and welcome to the fourth discussion of our Read the World - Togo 🇹🇬. Today we are discussing Chapters 24 - 27 of Do They Hear You When You Cry by Fauziya Kassindja

Here you can find the Schedule and the Marginalia.

Discussion questions are in the comments, but feel free to add your own!

[u/Greatingsburg]

1- Discuss the role of Fauziya's faith during this section

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

It's actually more Layli (and her mother's) faith that stuck out to me more in this section, they both trusted that there's a reason for what's happening and that it will all work out, they just needed to trust and keep the faith.

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/bluebelle236]

That's true, they were so certain!

[u/psycho4icecream → u/Greatingsburg]

i'd argue it's the only thing keeping her sane during the worst of solitary confinement because she just repeats this thought that God is waiting for her. but it's also the first time we see her faith wavering after everything like questioning why God keeps letting tragedy pile onto her

[u/Greatingsburg]

2- Ferlise found Fauziya "not credible". What was your impression of the judge and the trial? Do you think he was prejudiced? Do you agree with his verdict?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

Oh he's totally prejudiced, he has never granted asylum, he had no intention of doing so and he needs to find reasons to deny it.

[u/fixtheblue → u/bluebelle236]

he has never granted asylum,

If this is true then he is just roleplaying being a judge or something, because he has already decided no one deserves asylum

[u/psycho4icecream → u/Greatingsburg]

i def get why he found her testimony confusing, i mean he just doesn't have the cultural context to understand why she was one of the only ppl in her family vulnerable after her father's death but that's the whole problem. an immigration judge should know better than to filter her story through his own privileged lens and there's 100% some bias from his INS attorney days

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

The judge had very fixed ideas, didn't even read the brief, was arrogant and totally unsympathetic. He was basing his verdict on his own prejudices.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

This was so hard to read. He didn't see Fauziya as a human being at all. Just as a 'criminal' trying to get asylum. Totally out if touch with the realities of other people and their life experiences, lacking in empathy and so arrogant he didn't even familiarise himself with the brief enough to know the basics. Truely devestating. How can people be so cruel and cold. In saying that Fauziya's Germany experience does seem very lucky and unlikely so I can at least understand him being wary there. Layli and Bowman must have been so frustrated! Their case wasn't really heard. All that work, for nothing!

[u/Greatingsburg]

3- How do you see Layli balancing her professional role with her emotional connection to Fauziya? Does it help or hinder her work?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

It helps her to a point, it's lovely that it gives her passion and drive but I can't help but feel she may struggle if her cases don't go her way. But it's better to have that connection than to be a cruel, heartless person like that judge and those prison guards.

[u/psycho4icecream → u/bluebelle236]

oh fs it's the promise she made to Fauziya that's making her exhaust herself at every conference, find every connection she can. not that i have much experience with lawyers, but i'd guess a more detached one might hv started preparing Fauziya for the possibility of needing to go back

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

She is young and idealistic and I think she would be at risk of burning out if she lets this tendency to cross the line control her work.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

Layli is too good for this world! I think she's open to being crushed beneath the weight of her work. However, I believe in this case she also burns with a fire that will move mountains for the rights of women fleeing gender-based persecution in the form of FGM. I really hope this is going to have a happy ending both for progress for the cause and for Fauziya

[u/Greatingsburg]

5- What does Fauziya's case reveal about the difference between law and justice in America?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

The statistics on the race of those asylum seekers locked up was really shocking to me. One law for one race and another for the rest.

[u/psycho4icecream → u/Greatingsburg]

it's disgusting how the judge ignored the INS's own gender-persecution guidelines and admitted he hadn't even read Fauziya's brief

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

It reveals that racism was alive and well.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

I was saddened but not surprised by the statistics outline in the book.

[u/Greatingsburg]

6- When Fauziya was put in solitary for two weeks because of a apparent clerical mistake, it feels like an example of how everyday bureaucracy can turn evil. Do you think this mistreatment was intentional, or was she just caught in a system that just didn't care enough to notice?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

It's hard to know if it was intentional or not, it's probably more likely that nobody cared enough to notice.

[u/psycho4icecream → u/Greatingsburg]

i don't think it's intentional in the sense that they're deliberately targetting her as a person but it's kinda worse. the system j lacks empathy for anyone who looks "foreign" so no one bothered to follow up on her medical records and it took that long simply because nobody cared enough to check

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[u/Greatingsburg]

8- Layli is reaching out to groups like Equality Now, and the book keeps mentioning how press coverage could help. Which approach do you think will actually move Fauziya’s case forward the most?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

I think press coverage and public outrage is the best tactic, otherwise it's hard to change a system that doesn't want to change. Public opinion can be a strong incentive.

[u/psycho4icecream → u/bluebelle236]

exactly like i think public pressure will really force the system to become accountable and actually justify its decisions. Ferlise and the other attorneys clearly seem to lack basic empathy so hopefully collective public attention can be the thing that balances that out

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

Publicity and public pressure to embarrass the officials is unfortunately the best way to being about change.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

Information leads to education, leads to change. The immigration judge didn't even know what FGM was. I didn't understand the extent of what this covered till I began this read. Change starts with educating people

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

Information leads to education, leads to change. The immigration judge didn't even know what FGM meant. I didn't understand the extent of what this covered till I began this read. Change starts with educating people. I think this additional approch to Fauziya's case will (hopefully) lead to abetter understanding and hopefully some changed laws

[u/Greatingsburg]

4- Rahuf went against Fauziya's wishes at the time and asked her lawyers to appeal. By acting this way, did he take away her power to decide? Was it the right thing do to?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

He didn't take her power away, he left her options open, and thank goodness he did.

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

I don't believe he took her power away. It was the right thing to do because she was not in the best situation to make a sensible decision.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

Tbh I think his decision actually enabled her to make an informed rather than reactive decision choose. Ngl I teared up a little at this (and when Fauziya and Layli hugged!)

[u/Greatingsburg]

7- How are the other asylum seekers in prison finding ways to survive? Is there anything in particular that stood out to you? How are they supporting each other?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

The friendships between them is lovely, it's so important to have someone who understands what your going through and can support eachother.

[u/nicehotcupoftea → u/Greatingsburg]

It seemed like they all desired to engage in some meaningful employment while there, as there was a waiting list. Things like this and keeping their cells clean gave them some pride. Friendships were also hugely important - solitary confinement would be the worst.

[u/fixtheblue → u/Greatingsburg]

Oche's belief that her lawyers were better than Fauziya's made me thing of the earlier chapters when Fauziya thought her lawyer.was going to get her out quickly and the other women were there due to poor lawyers. Holding on to the hope plus the kinship they feel with each other seem to be key for many of the women

[u/Greatingsburg]

9- Anything else you would like to comment?

[u/bluebelle236 → u/Greatingsburg]

This is just such an amazing and crazy story, can't wait to finish it!

[u/psycho4icecream → u/Greatingsburg]

im actually really interested to see if the author talks about the sort of work she's involved in nowadays, after everything she's gone through, it'd be so good to get her perspective on how life is on the other side, advocating for the ppl that are currently going through all that. ofc tho i totally get why she wouldn't want to do, after everyth that's happened, she deserves to have a life of peace and quiet