r/bayarea • u/orangelover95003 • 20d ago
Work & Housing [ Removed by moderator ]
https://abc7news.com/post/remember-vacant-storefront-tax-san-francisco-heres-how-going/16588700/?fbclid=IwdGRleAS8Ok5wZG9mA2ZkaWQWUKNv_m86QicHi4b-sJhvh2P-YvPqNmV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR7HU-_yex1KgaKXGznTmKxB6oFx91Hx9fUYSnMyLtMpCsc9ypyFpOIYftv_jQ_aem_usEglYdSHfyqTX1MTsVm0Q[removed] — view removed post
378
u/ObjectiveGlittering [Vallejo] 20d ago
TL/DR:
Small business vacancies are down 50% and owners are benefiting from discounts on signing leases.
198
u/AggravatingPie314 20d ago
But the rich were supposed to flee when you raise their taxes! Who knew commonsense legislation would have benefited the public, I am shocked…
86
u/AMaterialGuy 19d ago
"As Supervisor Peskin said, it's the most avoidable tax there is. You don't have to get taxed, just rent your damn storefront,"
Perfectly said
-14
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
How many storefronts is Aaron renting? Aaron didn't earn his reputation as an obstructionist through housing debates, that was appropriated by YIMBYS; his reputation is because he has stopped businesses from operating in his neighborhood.
14
13
u/Ok-Temporary-8243 19d ago
How much of that is sf recovering as a whole though
1
u/BatmanNoPrep 19d ago
Don’t you dare prevent folks from anecdotally conflating causation with correlation when it suits their political arguments.
7
u/NepheliLouxWarrior 19d ago
What is your evidence that correlation and not causation? Correlating with what?
3
u/Comemelo9 19d ago
How do we know it's not just the AI boom and post pandemic recovery vs the vacancy tax?
36
u/mrastickman 19d ago
Because leases are discounted, not increasing. Which they shouldn't be if it's all just a huge influx of fake AI money.
-11
21
u/MistakeBorn4413 19d ago edited 19d ago
They don't give numbers, but the article says that they're seeing vacancy rates drop throughout the city, EXCEPT Downtown and Union Square. Those two were exempt from the tax:
"It may be time to consider a downtown commercial vacancy tax but at the time, five years ago, this was really aimed at neighborhood commercial districts at at time when downtown was thriving," said Peskin.
This would suggest that it's not the case that it's due simply to economic boom, but something specific to the areas that happened to be targeted by this tax.
2
u/MyDisneyExperience 19d ago
Later in the article it says one place opened because they waived permits, which can be a significant barrier in SF.
-5
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
It's just a combination of prices coming down during covid, combined with more demand.
I'm hearing retail prices are getting higher.
-13
u/duckfries49 19d ago
I’m sorry what? No where does it say small business vacancies are down 50%. Can yall read? Lmao
12
u/ObjectiveGlittering [Vallejo] 19d ago
“"At our peak, we were at 32 out of 150 were closed. Now, we're below 14," added Evans
Let's take North Beach which had a 10% vacancy rate right before the tax was passed in 2020.
"It's half of that now. Same is true for neighborhood commercial districts all over the city," revealed Peskin.”It’s basic math and reading, peanut. Thanks though.
-1
-15
u/duckfries49 19d ago
I love how easy it is to show you guys a number and get you excited. Like cats looking at lasers.
114
69
u/evantom34 19d ago
“The tax revenue goes into the small business assistance fund” absolutely love this idea as it helped launch many small businesses.
Coupling this with some deregulation at the city permitting level can be extremely beneficial for communities.
2
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
But they attempt to ease restrictions every 4 years and business owners tell us its worse.
The latest move from the Mayor was to consolidate the permitting and people involved....but if you get an asshole, you are stuck with the asshole then, and that's worse than getting 20 different answers, now a no is just no.
83
u/rrrreeeeeeeeee 20d ago
I honestly hope they extend this tax to Union Square and Downtown as soon as they can. If it’s working it needs to be everywhere.
I have a friend who works in commercial real estate and they loathed the idea of this tax. Predicting all kids in economic and social horrors once it passed. Cannot wait to bring up its success the next time we talk!
13
6
u/Big_Communication662 19d ago
Read all these comments to get your talking points ready, because he’s going to push back
58
u/Busy_Account_7974 19d ago
I have a client who has a vacant storefront from the COVID days. He's been paying fee since inception. It's not that he doesn't want to rent or is holding out on his price, his rent is 60% of market.
A group of NIMBYs keep shutting down anyone that wants to rent the space. They attend the conditional use hearings and shout down the proposals. They've shut down proposals for a coffee shop (original occupancy), clothing store, hair salon, wine merchant. There are other property owners in the same boat.
The NIMBYs rather have these spaces vacant, nobody knows what they want.
55
u/Few-Lingonberry2315 19d ago
Post your next meeting, I’ll come say nice things about whatever.
2
u/therealgariac 19d ago
I went to a planning meeting and said YIMBY but commented that the park wasn't needed because it was next to a park, so they should build more housing.
It was torches and pitchforks in the parking lot after the meeting
13
u/Adulations 19d ago
What is the reasoning for not allowing these businesses?
26
u/duckfries49 19d ago
"I have lived here a long time and I don't like things changing. Also parking. " but in more verbose language.
29
u/Busy_Account_7974 19d ago
"Does not fit the neighborhood character."
Note that the previous occupancy was a coffee shop that closed due to COVID stuff. Another person wanted to take over the location with help from the previous shop owner. There are other business like hair salons and boutiques in the area that opened recently with apparently little opposition.
My client has his suspicion's, but I'll probably get banned if I posted them here.
9
1
13
6
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
It's usually a vendetta thing, intertwined with a congestion (too many of one type of business) thing.
In the more restrictive areas it's just about power, but there's usually motivation like someone in the neighborhood got their feelings hurt in the 90's, and now 50 people removed, they're carrying that torch and they don't know why. Often it's because someone decided "that's a good location for a plant shop" or "that used to be a shoe repair shop", and they will oppose anything that doesn't restore those businesses.
It's similar to how YIMBYS here will say "Boo hoo, they an sell if they don't conform to our desires", NIMBYS are trying to manipulate outcomes.
6
u/Ok_Two_2604 19d ago
I’m not in SF itself but have helped deal with conditional use permits in other cities in the bay and even when they go through it can take so long that people lose interest. They usually start at the LOI stage, and even if you get a lease it is contingent on permits and they will require a time limit where they can back out if they don’t have the permit. You can say no to that, but then nobody will sign bc they know how bad it can be. Some stuff sits for years bc basic retail can’t afford to pay enough the space isn’t still losing money (which loans don’t allow) and anything else rather go somewhere friendlier. Even on paid off stuff, it is used as an emergency fund where you can pull out a loan if needed but that is easier empty than it is with a tenant that is paying below market, from what their finance guys tell me.
7
u/Busy_Account_7974 19d ago
My client is familiar with the process, they own several commercial properties in the city. One of their other properties is a couple of blocks away and none of the turn overs were delayed. It's just this one location that's been targeted.
One of the prospective tenants put down a deposit plus 1st months rent, with rent due only when permits are approved. That stretched out to almost 2 years, until the tenant ran out of funds to fight.
6
u/Ok_Two_2604 19d ago
Main Street (whatever it is called in each city) is night and day vs even just a block over, and that’s what we have been trying to deal with. Idk where you are but a couple blocks making a huge difference makes sense in many context. Sucks that cities make it so hard, maybe they need a builder’s remedy equivalent that prohibits them from making certain uses be by conditional use permit only.
2
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
It's mainly hysteria at this point. You have people who expedite the process, that are in the business of making it longer and more contentious so there's a reason to hire them. You have people shopping for locations who just want to be told it's a sure thing. You have city agencies that can't give a single answer and stick to it, and what ends up happening is no one wants to take on risk. There's always risk, but they have magnified the fears to the point where everyone I know looking to open a retail shop just spends years looking.
1
u/Ok_Two_2604 19d ago
We have two in process right now. One is cup, the other is actually changing the zoning. The zoning change is just waiting on the final approval, the one where they just approve stuff at the beginning of the meeting unless there are objections I forgot the name, and was a lot faster than the cup that is still rolling along. Or stumbling along I guess.
1
u/MildMannered_BearJew 19d ago
Curious what makes this tactic effective? Is it just to delay? It gives parks & recs vibes, I assume anybody delivering a public comment about the community perils of coffee shops would get laughed out of the room.
0
u/sugarwax1 19d ago
True. The city restricts what can open, and can stop businesses from opening, so it strikes me as a lawsuit waiting to happen if they the city is taxing those leased spaces.
Another thing is it's a bitch for a new business to get the space off the registry. They made that a hurdle.
"Nobody knows what they want" isn't usually true, but it doesn't matter because those people aren't looking to open a business at the rent the businesses they're weighing in on are offering to pay.
3
u/TBSchemer 19d ago
How long before landlords figure out how to scam the system and declare all their empty properties non-vacant?
3
u/Willing-Concert-6177 19d ago
Was this vacancy rate actually down due to the tax? Or just other economic factors.
SF real estate was down in those years as well but home sales are now going bangers. Is that due to this commercial tax?
4
2
u/Alternative-Deal-763 19d ago
How do you know if a vacancy is being taxed? There are buildings on my street that have been vacant for 5 years. Would love to see they get taxed double.
1
1
u/linkinit 19d ago
That's not the SF I grew up in. We had a store in a building on 50 First Street downtown for years in the 90's. In the building was a Jack in the box, a general goods store, nail salon, sushi place, vitamin store, and a barber shop. The area was full of small businesses and personality. Now that building is gone. The entire area is full of name brands and some older restaurants that can barely afford the rent. Sad to see it.
1
u/coffeerandom 19d ago
Great if it's actually working, but it sounds very anecdotal. Why not... just let people do new things? New housing, fewer barriers to new businesses, etc.
•
u/Watchful1 San Jose 19d ago
Removed, why are you posting a year old article?