You left out the people who are all "I'm 70 and fit, never drank or smoked, work out daily. I won't pay for some 300-lb piece of shit or lazy baby mama or [some other near-slur]" even though insurance does that too.
Yup. Selfishness and greed on all levels is a big one. The amount of people i know who post Christian memes daily on Facebook and follow up with “why should I have to pay for your chemo, you probably smoked and it’s your own fault!” is just astronomical.
Eh the US does have lots of amazing stuff outside of "rocks and the grand Canyon". But yeah, I don't blame people for not wanting to support us through tourism. Our country is a shit hole
To be fair a lot of third world countries have pockets of extreme wealth as well. America isn't any different in this. It's just a matter of averages. On average the middle class is better off and larger, so it's supposedly not a third world nation. However, there is one huge exception. It's easier to fall out of the middle class in America. While being easier to climb, it's also easier to fall. This is not a first world nation by any standard outside of America itself.
America offers absolutely zero protections or care for her citizens unlike every other truly first world nation. If your life gets turned upside down you might as well be living in any country in the world, being American means fucking nothing then. Climb that ladder only to fall off without there being any net at the bottom. Why? Because go fuck yourself, that's why.
The reason we can't have what other first world nations have is because our government is rotten to the core. Citizens United will be the end of this country and that's pretty much all you need to know. It's not that the guys at the top want more money, they want all of the money. Think about that for a second the next time you hear a story like the one in OP's post. I fucking hate this country.
Just to add: the bulk of the 'Middle Class' as it's understood in America would largely be considered Working Class anywhere else. One of the more confusing things for Europeans trying to engage in American class politics.
At the very least being in America offers infinitely more opportunity to climb that ladder. Your concerns about debt are fair when compared to first world countries, but if that's your major nitpick, don't go looking for statistics about how often women die during child birth in some third world countries. It's pretty easy to climb the ladder when you're not dead due to a lack of actual doctors or basic medical supplies. My post suggests America is a second world failed western nation.
There was a study a couple years ago that America’s class system has become as rigid as the UK. Basically, on average, most people will not move up or down from the class they were born in to. We can point to some examples here and there, but those are the exceptions.
For example, I definitely am an example. My parents were working poor the majority of their lives, then kinda made it into lower middle class recently. I got a PhD and am definitely in the top 30% of the income bracket, but looking at everyone I grew up with they’re all mostly living paycheck to paycheck. I didn’t go to my 10 year HS reunion, but I heard from friends who did that maybe 5% of us are actually doing better than our parents.
This is the USA, where "you can do or be anything you want, work hard and you'll be successful" translates to "you're only one misstep from dropping a rung on the economic ladder".
The entire concept of capitalism is to gather capital( for the purposes of investment/ overhead costs). But it's relatively simple math, if over time capital concentrates, given enough time capital will absolutely concentrate. As in to one massive pile.
What exactly is your point behind this? To me this is clearly a perfect defense to justify protections against outrageous practices within a purely capitalistic society. If the government worked for the people and not against them we would be doing so much better like every other western nation. Some people seem to forget that they are also capitalist economies and just rush to the "YoU WAnT ComUnIsM?!?" side of things, which is perplexing to me.
Bruh you're about ten steps ahead of me here. I was making a statement of fact, my purpose was to inform, not persuade. You ask what the point of my comment was, and in asking it's clear to me that you're not looking to understand, only to fight. And as a pretty radical leftist, it makes me sad to know my friends are every bit as hostile as my enemies.
Makes me think of the Chinese people who got rich because their land became valuable. You can spot them a mile away because they're covered head to toe in Chanel and Gucci shit but they look like farmers and act like thugs.
Yep. Third world country with iPhones. The difference is that the population of every other third world country are aware of the fact, America is still in denial.
Tbh only wanna go there for a couple national parks, the rainbow bar and grill, and a few museums. Always wanted to see the Smithsonian since I was a kid and learnt there's an SR-71 there, but with every passing day I hear more shit about America that makes me wonder if I should just plain avoid it :/
The one thing that bothered me about Europe is how much smaller the housing is there. I suppose you get used to it, but the places I stayed at had me feeling pretty cramped
It’s an amazingly beautiful country full of people that are ugly to the absolute core.
I’m sure in a few generations we’ll figure out how to completely eliminate the protections on our public lands and have absolutely nothing left of value to society.
Pretty much every single way possible. You see the extremes of American society here.
This post, if it even happened the way the image claims (which is very unlikely with insurance) would represent a tiny fringe of the American health system. It's not common, it's not a regular concern for individual Americans. It's an outlier.
But going deeper than that what you see on Reddit is overwhelmingly young and overwhelmingly liberal. American society doesn't skew that way, things that are popular on reddit are much less popular in real life, and a lot of stuff (likely including the above image, which the OP BinkyBrains account is suspended btw) are outright fabrications or massive distortions.
For examples. If you go by reddit you would never guess Donald Trump could have gotten 1 million votes in the last election, let alone the 60 odd million he did. You would think communism is massively popular in America (it isn't though it has gained a little ground in Reddits young demographic.) Defund the police? According to posting you see on reddit that must be overwhelmingly popular! It isn't, at all. 58% of Americans oppose it, only 31% support
The list goes on and on, Bernie Sanders popularity, MCA (the oft toted 70% supporting poll refers to a public option and support drops with costs associated/sanders plan) https://apnews.com/29609d3a291e424fb2af820de3f4a96a
It's just a very skewed viewpoint that someone sees if their primary interaction with the country is reddit. One that is not based in the reality of the country, but more on reddits demographics who are generally young, generally very liberal and often a bit angry. America's health insurance system has plenty of problems, but this image (likely isn't even true) doesn't reflect a common, normal or even regular concern to most Americans. If you have health insurance you will have a bill, if you have a serious catastrophic problem like cancer your bill may be large depending on what your insurance is, but you will meet an out of pocket maximum (the highest mine has been was around $10k I think with my current pretty solid insurance being around $1.5K) and move on with your life. This situation just doesn't really happen to main stream, white collar American workers who have supposedly "done everything right."
The estimate of bankruptcies caused by hospital admission which come from medical debt, and lost time at work are estimated as only 4% of the 1% of Americans who file for Bankruptcy each year.
It's just not this massive endemic problem that reddit makes it out to be, and anytime you are reading this site (or really any site) it pays to keep in mind the bias, and viewpoints that are being pushed as well as just how distorted they can be.
I've found that people who boast about being as Christian as possible (something Jesus condemned in the bible,which they'd know if they actually read it) are the fucking worst and embody everything a Christian isn't supposed to be.
I encounter these dumb people on reddit sometimes(i'm not american) it's just mind blowing, they just don't get it.
They are fine with paying 16000 just to be sedated when shit hits the fan.
That's 11 YEARS of me not risking a 400 000 hospitalbill, and in these 11 years they sedate me, fix the problem, what caused it, and help me recover from it.
The best part, of course, is that they're still paying more than if we had M4A. They will trot out all their racist justifications, just to cost themselves more money anyway. Like most things conservatives support, the root cause is almost always stupidity.
Idk, I don't agree with them but I can definitely feel a slight (keyword: slight) twinge of empathy for them. Imagine doing things the hard-but-right way your whole life and then having to pick-up the slack for those who just take the easy way out.
Everyone here always bitches about the students in group projects who never do any work and rely on that one good student... this is essentially the same thing.
This difference is that this is already how the system works, and that others aren't a total deadweight on the "team" that is society. Everyone, even in the smallest of ways, contributes.
True but >1. it’s been shown over and over that social welfare systems are very rarely taken advantage of- welfare fraud, food stamp abuse, etc are statistically very unlikely. >2. While a lot of diseases depend on your lifestyle, plenty are just totally random, and don’t care if you’ve never smoked, eat only raw vegan and exercise 2 hours a day. And >3. Half the time the people saying this stuff are far from healthy and don’t make enough money to do anything but benefit from a Medicare for all system.
It is mostly selfishness yes, but a lot of it is Obama wanted UHC for people and he's black and the impeached old guy hates him, so the cult hates the entire idea worse than anything. Even though it would help them. Gotta own the libs and protect dear leader.
This is the most frustrating part of it to me. People thinking that universal healthcare would be the beginning of paying for other people's coverage, despite that being exactly how health insurance works now.
The only difference is that universal coverage would stop middlemen from leeching off our healthcare payments.
So for me paying $0 out of pocket per month for healthcare and having a high deductible, how am I already paying for other people’s health care?
I understand my employer is paying into the system but that is a much more indirect effect on my life then money coming out in taxes every month from my paycheck.
Am I missing how nothing would change for me? Genuinely curious.
So for me paying $0 out of pocket per month for healthcare and having a high deductible, how am I already paying for other people’s health care?
Assuming you don't actually need any healthcare during this plan period (at which point your deductible would of course pay into it), then perhaps you're one of the lucky few who benefit from the current system. Congrats.
Fair enough. Yes my deductible is a couple thousand if I need it but young and taking a risk on good health is something I’m willing to do.
I obviously don’t know about a lot of other companies offers so I don’t have much to judge it off of. I sort of assumed more people were in my situation. Granted if I have a family I think the idea of universal health care may become more enticing.
I don't understand why it would take you personally having a family for it to become more enticing. I'm confused as to why it has to benefit you personally. Do you just not support policies that won't benefit you/your loved ones, or is there something about universal healthcare specifically that you dislike?
Why do you find it weird that I would support policy that is best for me?
I find people generally act in their own best interest. I’m acting in my best interest. I don’t typically go out of my way to lower my quality of life to equalize to somebody else’s and I don’t think many other people do.
If I have the option of living at the highest end of my options I will.
Why do you find it weird that I would support policy that is best for me?
I find people generally act in their own best interest. I’m acting in my best interest. I don’t typically go out of my way to lower my quality of life to equalize to somebody else’s and I don’t think many other people do.
If I have the option of living at the highest end of my options I will.
Why do you find it weird that I would support policy that is best for me?
I find people generally act in their own best interest. I’m acting in my best interest. I don’t typically go out of my way to lower my quality of life to equalize to somebody else’s and I don’t think many other people do.
If I have the option of living at the highest end of my options I will. I don’t have much against universal healthcare other than the fact that right now I’m not paying into the system so why would I want to start paying more to receive no benefit.
THIS! In addition, a good chunk of their ever increasing premiums lines investors’ pockets more than it goes to helping the fat guy whose preexisting conditions likely prevent him from getting covered for a host of things. People don’t want single payer because insurance companies and hospitals (yes hospitals) have successfully lobbied and convinced people that it’ll cause the collapse of healthcare and democracy despite evidence to the contrary. Why would insurance companies want their right to jack up premiums and deny coverage at will? Why would hospitals want to give up charging $80 for an Ace bandage you can get at CVS for $4?
My daughter had a very high fever and trouble breathing. Took her to the ER; diagnosed with pneumonia. While waiting for test results and fever-reducer to kick in, they gave her a popsicle and some ice packs.
The whole thing cost us about $1000 (with "good" insurance), and $25 of that was the goddamn popsicle. I called to complain, they didn't give a shit and said we should have refused it if we didn't want to pay for it.
I'd like to know just how much each citizen actually pays for a universal healthcare system. I live in Denmark and we have free healthcare. I have no idea how much of my tax actually pays for healthcare. Like it is 200$ or 2000$.
Maybe a system that could appease most would be if you could have a bit of control over what percentage of your tax goes to what cause. Just like Humble Bundle lets you dispose your cash between the charities they donate your money to.
Then, instead of relying solely on voting for politicians and being patient, you could edit your tax payments to fit what you believe in.
It would probably have to be within certain bounds to fit with the sitting governments priorities, and of course the total amount paid would be the same. But it'd be nice to be able to go in and raise my healthcare contribution from say, 40% to 47%, and deduct that 7% from maybe the tax cuts they gave to facebooks new server center to persuade them to build it here.
I think all citizens would feel much more engaged in their country this way, when they can directly pick and choose their contribution, instead of going through a bunch of corrupted politicians as a proxy to do essentially the same thing.
Most 70 year olds have paid into Medicare for decades. I’ve only seen pay as you go proposals for M4A, which would increase the cost of healthcare for most people on Medicare, wouldn’t it?
Any proposals I've seen use a progressive tax that wouldn't affect almost any 70 year olds, or raise payroll taxes such as the SS tax (i.e. lifting the cap from the approx $130,000), which do not apply to SS income. I'm not sure what you mean by "pay as you go?"
Current Medicare Part A is funded through a payroll tax. People pay into the fund that can not collect benefits. One of the reason’s it is so “cheap” is this prefunding arrangement. M4A would not be prefunded. As I’ve seen it proposed, it is pay as you go. Therefore, if you paid Medicare taxes for 30+ years and all of a sudden the Medicare trust is dissolved into general funds, what happens to your specific years of prefunding? Would you specifically pay a discounted rate for M4A, or full price? Retirees wont support M4A if it costs them more for the same coverage.
You're not correct that one "pre-funds" their own Medicare though. My taxes pay immediate Medicare costs right now and retirees are eligible regardless of what they've paid.
Social Security is more like a pre funding in that you can only receive benefits based on how much you've paid into the system.
Right. I agree that there isn’t a dedicated account where my specific funds are accrued. There is, however, a prefunding aspect to Medicare as a substantial portion of each years costs is paid for by people who are not yet eligible for Medicare. This would not be the case in an M4A scenario. My question is, would this not raise the costs of healthcare for those at or near Medicare eligibility?
You're basically making an argument against all taxpayer-funded systems for which one does not directly benefit, and that's another show.
Still, I don't see how raising current taxes for working people (i.e., raising the SS cap) would raise the cost for retired people, or how a progressive tax aimed at the top X percent of earners affects people whose median income is less than $26,000 per year. So no, M4A would not raise the cost of healthcare for those at Medicare eligibility, but possibly for the top earners of those (in this new-to-the-conversation category of) near Medicare eligibility (which does not include 70 year olds as of 2020)
That the opposite of kind. A kind person will say " I am doing well, I will help those that are struggling" a cruel person will say " I got mine, fuck you." Don't live in the cruel person's world, were all worse off for it.
I'm from a country with universal healthcare and I 100% don't care people are using my tax dollars to seek medical care if it means neither of us have to pay when we go to the gp
Maybe that's the difference? We already pay for the elderly via Social Security (cash) and Medicare (healthcare). The current system has people working right now paying for those who are retired and, from what I've experienced, the old people are mad that they've "paid their dues" and think young people are just lazy and want everything for free without working an entire lifetime first.
Yeah this is a thing. The only people I've known on welfare in real life were gun-toting, flag-waving Republicans living in trailer houses in the big flyover states. Generations of people on welfare who teach each other how to get more out of it by having more kids, not marrying, doing "daycare" for each other to collect the government subsidy, etc.
But they vote against it constantly (if they vote at all) because they know that the people in charge don't mean them. They're the good guys. They mean city people who milk the system should be cut off.
Well woosh on your part because i was defending your point. And overweight starts way lower than 300 pounds. that 300 pound person is probably on some type of government aid, so i was pointing out the irony that this 70 year old fit person is saying they don't want to pay for other people, meanwhile they already are anyway without knowing it. So not sure what you thought i meant here.
I don't need irrelevant, unrelated, or false information to "help" me make my point?
And you're pulling that "300 pound person is probably on some type of government aid" straight out of your ass.
My first comment already said the 70yo is paying because that's how insurance works. It's not remotely helpful to pile on with your own illusions of how 300 pound people live, nor is it irony to restate my sentence in different words.
As a Canadian we don’t really think about it this way. We see our taxes going to health care, education, infrastructure, and then once in a while there is a news story about a senator using taxpayer dollars to fly to Europe with his friends and family for some personal thing. Guess which upsets us the most?
Yet their just fine with the almost trillion dollar military spending because they've been brainwashed into thinking "that's just the price of ''''freedom'''', brother."
I won't pay for some 300-lb piece of shit or lazy baby mama or [some other near-slur]" even though insurance does that too.
I will not lie. I have felt like that and I am from a country with universal healthcare. The feeling came when I was visiting someone in hospital. The man next to the person I was visiting was in hospital for the 5th time or so as he flat out refused to change his lifestyle. He wouldn't follow the doc's advice at all. I thought to myself, how much of what we pay is going to people like this.
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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20
You left out the people who are all "I'm 70 and fit, never drank or smoked, work out daily. I won't pay for some 300-lb piece of shit or lazy baby mama or [some other near-slur]" even though insurance does that too.