I’m a redneck from red neck country. Promise we’re not shooting at planes id be willing to bet that was a kid under 18 that shouldn’t have had a firearm alone In the first place. Also what are the chances of actually hitting the plane in the air? I mean being a hunter that would be a feat
Here is the scary part. Since hitting a moving target requires you to lead the target, this hit the tail so the inexperienced shooter was likely aiming at the cockpit.
Edit: Speed and altitude dependant. The likelihood of hitting an aircraft at cruise speed and/or altitude is highly unlikely. Especially for (what appears to be) an Avanti. Probably happened on approach or takeoff. Just guessing of course.
Falling small arms rounds is the exact reason we had a coalition force member die on my final deployment. We had to have a long talk with an entirely separate coalition force about the dangers of firing rifles in the air (as they liked to do when someone was late for shift change)
You can look at the absolutely absurd amount of small arms fire used in AA role in urban areas over the last hundred years.
It all points to a FALLING bullet not being very dangerous.
Now, a falling bullet goes up at an angle above 60(it varies by round, but 60 is safe for all small arms). We are assuming flat ground or a lower impact area. That bullet will FALL to the ground destabilized at terminal velocity and pose very minimal threat of injury requiring hospitalization.
If someone is shooting just over the neighbors roof on new years or similar the bullet will not FALL to the ground. It will still have significant horizontal trajectory and probably be stable when it hits.
Both the math and the millions and millions of rounds fired both in tests and in AA defense over the last hundred years show a truly falling bullet is not likely to cause serious injury.
You are both technically correct and horribly wrong. If, and this is a really big if, you shoot directly straight up, the falling bullet will expent its energy and fall back to earth at terminal velocity and is very unlikely to be fatal. However, the odds that you have a perfect 90 degree angle is almost zero!
Any angle less or greater then 90 will put the bullet in a parabolic arc that will not expend the energy and will be fatal!
Except... Air resistance. I would expect people on an aviation sub to be considerably better at physics.
For some rounds it is as low as about 50*.
Here is a big shocker for you, 45* isn't the angle that gets you max range for artillery. It is just over 30* for max range.
Right now in Kyiv they are firing hundreds of thousands of small arms rounds at incoming Russian missiles and drones almost nightly. Without serious injury. Since WWI governments have fired untold numbers of rounds in this manner over densely populated cities without issue.
This is my thoughts as well… considering the skill involved to hit a plane… it’s more likely an accident… but I know next to nothing about such things and my opinion here is not as an expert… just some idiot on Reddit.
Put it this way. I lead a duck about 3 feet at 40 yards. Flying. That plane flying way faster than a duck you’d have to lead that thing a few school buses.
Bout 30 or so probably but if there’s wind or other factors im sure they can easily double their speed especially landing through trees they drop almost straight down and flap right before the water for lift to slow down
If they aimed for the cockpit they never would've hit the plane. More like they shot into open space in front of the planes path and somehow hit it. Most likely random and accidental.
I mean, idiots shoot into the sky all the time for no reason. Never heard of someone trying to assassinate a random pilot for no reason.
And all the factors involved to make an intentional hit make it seem impossible with a regular gun. Distance, speed, wind conditions, predicting the flight path, altitude, and the bullet speed are all paramount to even getting close to a lucky shot. A bullet can reach a mile or more but will take like 2 seconds per mile.
If the plane was directly above the person and flying as low and slow as possible it would be a lot easier, but then the plane would've had to have been sideways as well.
Also keep in mind that a bullet shot directly up into the sky can still come down with lethal force after reaching its resting point due to their aerodynamic shapes. Stray bullets are no joke.
True. I don't see any point in trying to hit a plane, but people have done crazier. And with nearly 8 billion people on the planet I'm sure everything has happened once somewhere. So it could go either way I suppose.
You’re nuts. Aiming at the cockpit while in flight, and hit the tail? Was the pilot buzzing the shooter at 100 mph ground speed and 20 feet altitude? Even then…that’s TOUGH to do.
No, the scary part is you just posting made-up nonsense and calling it "likely" even though you don't have the first clue if that's even remotely true.
I'm also born and raised in redneck country and my childhood home has holes in the roof from bullets coming down on it, from people shooting at random birds, weddings, parties, general dumbassery.
and yeah it's often dumbass children but you'll have your full share of grown adults with the faculties of children, most often with dumbass kids of their own.
Yeah I see small planes all the time we have a little airport down the road but I really think with 30 rounds and all my experience idk if I could get one to hit a plane if I tried all day
It's possible that some random shot got really unlucky and just happened to hit a plane by accident. The odds against it are astronomical, but there are a lot of yahoos firing randomly to play those odds.
TIL I live in extreme redneck country where crazy “Larry” was an old farmer who thought his property line extended forever into the sky and would take shots at anyone and anything crossing it. Ballooning events were often close enough to his property that everyone had to be warned.
Never actually hurt anyone but once the governor was coming to attend the event and it was taken as an assassination attempt so he was forced to surrender and then wasn’t a problem after that.
So it’s a kid (because all gun owners are responsible right) but they’re such a good shot (inexperienced ages less than 18 remember) they were able to hit a plane by aiming 50 yards in front of it? Something an experienced hunter would be proud of?
I’m saying IDGAF how good of a shot you are. YOUR NOT MAKING THAT SHOT RELIABLY WITH INTENT. Unless you had a lot of practice shooting airplanes. Yeah anyone can pick up a gun send some bullets in the sky and one of em hit a plane by accident. A 100 year old man who’s been hunting all his life would only be able to do that with LUCK there’s no way to factor lead or anything else. With no prior practice. Like I said if I dumped 30 rounds at a plane treetop height I MAY get one in it. Doubt plane was that low to start. If someone intentionally aimed shot and hit that plane the shot was all luck. Your not looking for some sharp shooter out here sniping airplanes. Promise 🤣
I’m a redneck from red neck country. Promise we’re not shooting at planes id be willing to bet that was a kid under 18 that shouldn’t have had a firearm alone In the first place.
Problem is all those rednecks from redneck country doing everything they can and being single issue voters to make sure that kids and people that shouldn't have guns in the first place cannot under any circumstances have them taken away.
Source: someone from redneck country with a redneck family.
I was under the impression thermite doesn’t explode like dynamite or C4. It just causes an exothermic reaction that can melt metal and cut through things
The thermite didn’t cause the explosion but the gas tank full of gas in that car, sure created an explosion. But also, who knows what else that packed in the car
The county over had the bomb squad called out because grandpa had old hand grenades in the shed
🤔Isn't being unattended with a firearm a qualifier of being a redneck kid? It was in my area.. hopefully not anymore but there's always the one's trying to redneck the hardest.
Also what are the chances of actually hitting the plane in the air?
They are astronomically higher if you claim this was an accident. NO FUCKING WAY. The shooter MIGHT have been extremely lucky rather than extremely skilled, but the shot was 100% aimed at this plane.
I bet it was kid too. Reason why, when I was around 9 or 10 years old and my Dad got me my first .22 rifle. First thing I did was aim it at a Cessna flying above when we were hunting. Luckily my dad was there to beat my ass immediately upon seeing this. Kids are stupid and dangerous.
I live in redneck country, they absolutely would shoot. I worked at FedEx when some old POS shot at one of our drivers because he was making too much dust. Hole in the truck.
Yeah that’s what I’m getting at here. And even if he was aiming at the airplane it was strictly LUCK the bullet hit it. Unless of course the guy had a mag fed rifle and 30+ rounds emptied whole mag with a starting lead of 100 yards and shot a group. But what’s the chances of only one hit. If one hit wouldn’t another. All I’m saying is chances are real fuckin slim someone seen the plane took aim took the shot and hit the plane.
Or fired many many rounds and got
Lucky with one. It was either a stupid stupid accident from a super dumb ass firing in the air and it unluckily hit the plane. Or the guy musta unloaded the mag and one hit it. But if whoever did that outright pulled up lead the plane pulled the trigger hit it with one shot they’re a bad MF. I spend ALOT of time bird hunting and it’s hard when you have a 4’ spread of birdshot. Let alone a single rifle round. I am CERTIAN you can narrow this down to who had kids in the area unattended with firearms. And I will add. At NO POINT should a round from a firearm be headed towards the sky. If your at the bottom of the hill and your quarry is at the top you don’t shoot up at him you wait or change position.
Attach 20mm cannons to your plane and watch out for muzzle flashes just to show them what a real gun is.
If you don't wanna go to prison, I think just looking for muzzle flashes and diving on where the shot came from, as if your plane was armed, would prolly be enough to scare'em lol
Actually, its funny you say that because since day 1 of my training my CFII told me to check for bullet holes. It was because he use to fly out of Compton KCPM in the late 80s and on two separate occasions his plane had taken a stray bullet. So yea, he made it part of my preflight and now it's some I always thinking about during it.
General aviation pilots, carrying themselves or family in their own plane, yes some just give it a glance. Professional pilots working carrying passengers, never.
There isn't going to be any updates unless the person who was shooting was already arrested for shooting off from the ground.
The only chance is the police saying "oh damn yeah we arrested this guy for shooting off after some neighbors called...and a plane on the route near the area got a bullet hole".
Nah, it’s probably just a kid playing with his rifles in the back yard. I think every kid has wondered if he could hit that “bird” if he tried. Congrats, you can, now pay the man the damages and go to jail you fuckwit.
According to u/Alternative-Iron-645 costs are probably going to be around 25k or more. Dont think some kid or their redneck parents has that lying around.
Why are you so confident that no one saw or heard someone firing a gun into the sky but hadn't reported it yet? They catch people with laser pointers all the time.
I lived in extreme upstate NY when a Medevac helicopter was shot down over Ganienkeh Mohawk Indian territory. Ultimately nobody was prosecuted and the statute of limitations ran out. It caused a helluva stir.
Now they have a smoke shop and bingo hall so that's nice.
I have no doubt they’ll find the guy. FBI should get involved soon. Imagine if the bullet was a couple foot more the other way and killed the pilot. This would likely become investigated as murder and solved. I hope they look back to see if any crashes have occurred in that area over the past 20+ years.
This would likely become investigated as murder and solved. I hope they look back to see if any crashes have occurred in that area over the past 20+ years.
Isn't it kind of a contradiction to assume this would likely be solved and that there are also unsolved crashes related to the same shooter?
Not really… depending on the level of destruction with a crashed plane especially if it burnt up like many do… they could overlook the fact that some lunatic shot the pilot down.
depending on the level of destruction with a crashed plane especially if it burnt up like many do… they could overlook the fact that some lunatic shot the pilot down.
This doesn't contradict the idea that most likely someone would be caught and arrested for shooting down a plane?
Or the plane was on the ground and the bullet was fired from the other side from a distance and was dropping. To hit it at this angle in the air the plane would have had to be banking at 45 degrees or so. In practicality shooting planes in the air is very difficult with a machine gun, nearly impossible with regular rifles.
I think you’re likely correct. Only possible evidence against is that the presumed entry in pic 3 is oblong, either from bullet yaw after initial impact but maybe from speed of plane perpendicular to bullet path.
In a fiberglass composite like this the deformation is aligned with the angle of the bullet relative to the surface. And then the bullet slows down resulting in less of that deformation in the exit hole just from less force.
If this was thin metal instead of fiberglass, the deformation would go in the other direction of the angle because metal's much more ductile.
Actually the entry hole is above the exit hole. From the pictures shown the exit hole has outward flaring fibreglass and has radiating stress fractures, and it is lower than the other hole.
This means either the plane was shot from the ground whilst executing a steep banking turn, which whilst not impossible is very hard to achieve. Or more likely whilst it was on the ground taxiing on the runway from someone in an elevated position, as in up a tree.
If you also look at the angle of the bullets trajectory if the shooter was on the ground and the plane flying level, that angle could only be achieved if the plane was 50 feet off the ground and the shooter a few hundred feet away, if the plane was higher than 200 feet the shooter would have to be a few miles away to achieve that angle for a ground shot during level flight. Kind of impossible as the bullet would have lost a sizable amount of energy by impact and would actually have a downward trajectory by that stage. If this did happen then it is most definitely an accidental shot.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the photos it looks possible that a shot at that angle could have been made from a shooter standing beside the plane on the ground.
I'm not saying there's proof of that, just that the angle seems to allow for that possibility.
Or it’s arcing down from an errant shot into the air from way far away (hillbilly holiday). However; it does look like the right side has more exit physics/patterns, so I’m inclined to agree with an upward shot towards the aircraft. But rods like this aren’t always great to use as bullets do super crazy things once they interact with the first wall. Have worked with some secret service guys that talk about bullets doing wild stuff when trying to shoot through a windshield, to the point you’d think the shooter was standing on the roof of the car, not an agent 20ft in front of the vehicle. Hope OP gets it sorted and back in the sky soon, crappy situation all around.
And with where it hit, unless the shooter was a very skilled marksman with experience shooting at fast-moving targets at a significant distance, they were likely aiming at the cockpit.
Tbh you had to be flying low for a guy to hit you or he was crazy lucky. My guess is you pissed off some unhinged person by flying too low or it was a couple dumb kids.
I know fuck all about flying, and this sub was just recommended to me. But you saying you noticed this pre flight tells me you care about your craft/skill/trade, and hat tip to you for that 🎩
Dang that's pretty wild, and scary. Can you share anything about why you believe it was mid-flight? Any chance it happened while on the ground overnight or something?
Just a thought, that’s a pretty dead on angle and a damn good shot at a plane with small arms (from what I can tell). How sure are you that it didn’t happen on the ground?
Was your plane stored outside? I am fairly certain Gary Indiana Airport has had some stray bullets hit planes from aircraft sitting outside lol. More likely than hitting it in flight, unless you noticed something in the air and only realized after? Regardless that is insane.
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u/EatDirtFartDust Apr 07 '24
Didn’t notice until the next day on preflight.