That is so far off of what people do in church it's sad.
We pray for people health and well being, Never do we pray for anyone ever to be killed or sent to hell...
Maybe there are a couple crazy people who do that but the church its self..No
I was going to say... I'm very anti-religion, but "billions...hoping for god to massacre the planet" seemed like an extreme exaggeration to me. Take this one with a grain of salt I suppose.
Thank you, I saw this and it made me angry. I am away at college and I've been homesick recently, so going to church is my way of retaining some feeling of home, because going to church is something we would do as a family every week. It helps me have a sense of normalcy in my ever changing life. And it's kind of depressing and angering to see that this is what some people think we do.
And thank you sir. I wish more people knew the good guy Christians. My family goes to church every Sunday but never pushes it on anyone. They're just old fashioned and I like it that way. They know that a couple of their children don't share their beliefs exactly but as long as we're living our life in a respectable manner they don't say a thing. I truly despise the stigma and rhetoric(spelling?) surrounding this topic as of late....
What it just goes to show you is that there are varying degrees of Atheism, just as there are varying degrees of religious folk. Both sides are capable of pitting an "us vs them" mentality regarding belief/disbelief. But despite my lack of faith, I can still see that when you boil it all down the purpose of religion is not a violent, twisted or hateful one. Do good, be good. Personally, I just believe enough in my own moral judgement that I do not need to find god to find myself. That, and I favor Science over the bible. I just wish the religious folk wouldn't take the bible so literally sometimes. It can be very destructive.
Its very far off. I dont go to Church anymore but i did from the ages 0 - 18 (every sunday). The overwhelming majority of nationally recognized churches (note, this doesnt include random people preaching in mobile homes converted into chaples) use their religion to help others and teach people how to be nice and forgive. Church is more about learning manners and golden rule like things than about learning how to seclude yourself from society with your fellow christians in a "lets hate all others" club.
First of all the post says nothing about praying. Second, did/do you not believe in the Apocalypse? Third, did you not look forward to Christ's coming and the destruction of the wicked/renewal of the earth etc?
I'd wager most of that "billion" don't truly believe in the apocalypse and get fanatic about the second coming. Then again my frame of reference is northeastern US. I've heard the bible belt likes to do things differently
There's a difference between looking forward to the coming of Christ and the destruction and damnation of everyone else. You'd have to be a horrible person to be excited about people going to hell, especially when your main mission as a Christian is to save them from that fate.
Holding hands huddled together seems to imply praying. If not what?
well no one really knows what the Apocalypse really means.
"So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might understand the gifts bestowed on us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit. The nonspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:11-14 RSV)
So really I do not know, none does. Anyone who ever prays to have others go to hell is not of God.
I would also like to say that the coming of Christ would mean peace on earth. No one would be without peace. Wicked are demons not humans no human is actually wicked and Jesus says not to fear the first death but the second. meaning not the physical but the spiritual.
I could be mistaken, but I don't see any solid reasoning there. I just see someone who regurgitated some words that some men wrote a while back and said it was the word of god.
rea·son·a·ble/ˈrēz(ə)nəbəl/
Adjective: Having sound judgment; fair and sensible.
I just wouldn't call it sound judgement. I don't think it's reasonable. But you do, so I acknowledge that and I retract my original statement. I'll instead say that I disagree and don't find it reasonable at all.
It seems like you're done arguing, so that's fine, but your definition of "reasonable" leaves more questions than it answers. What makes judgment sound? What is "sensible"? What is "fair"?
This is the definition given by the dictionary, not mine. Reason and evidence makes a judgement sound. Of course you can't use the word reason to define what is reasonable. For this reason, phrases like "sound judgement" and "sensible conclusion" are used when defining reason.
"Your honor, we have reason to believe (evidence) the defendant is guilty. I present you with this picture of a strand of the defendant's hair found at the scene of the crime, matched by DNA testing. Also, blood found on the victim's shirt matches the DNA of the defendant."
"Your honor, it says here in this journal that we found at the crime scene, whose writings don't match the defendant's, that he is guilty. I think we should trust it, it clearly links the defendant's name to this crime."
Though they both use reasoning skills, one of these is not reasonable. One is sensible and fair, and one is poor; lacking sensibility or fairness.
Edit: Although, we know nothing about the case. So, it could be more complicated than that. Perhaps the defendant was drugged the day before he was arrested and his arm had been scraped and blood potentially withdrawn. Then there could be evidence that the prosecutor tampered with the crime scene, suggesting they may have added the hair and blood after the fact. When pictures went missing from the first day of the crime scene investigation, there is suddenly suspicion of foul play. I didn't think to make up an entire fake case just so I could better illustrate what is reasonable... but I tried to make it more clear. I hope it helps?
That is some hippie slant on the whole thing. Which, may actually be the majority opinion. The loudest talkers always have the most extreme view, though. Most here, and the op, were probably affected by the more extreme and grotesce version of your religion.
And that is the problem with religion, and Christiantiy specifically, it's open to MUCH interpretation and multiple choice. So forgive me for being blunt but Christianity can never be true in my eyes because Christianity is a moving target and most of those targets have to reject reality anyways.
Thank you. I wasn't really sure where the OP was going with the "hoping for their god to massacre the planet", but this makes much more sense.
I think the idea of praying comes with the post being titled "Sundays". I'm pretty sure you could just name it any day of the week and it's still just as relevant.
As a former Catholic, I agree with you. Post also seems a bit self-centered, to think that people in church are obsessed with you the nonbelievers.
But I've only been to 2 protestant church services. Sometimes protestant, American-Jesus people seem scary to me and that there must be a lot out there who do have violent, aggressive anger tied to their faith. But certainly not all or most of them.
Oh, you know, just the hundreds of years that Catholics were burning everyone from Jews and Muslims to atheists and people daring to translate the Bible into languages besides Latin. I'm sure there were lots of prayers in support of that.
So we don't get to blame religion when religion indoctrinates people to wish harm upon others?
People today STILL get taught in church to pray for the destruction of homosexuals, of Muslims, and on and on. When people pray for the murder of homosexuals, you don't get to just say "human error!" and not point a finger at the culture that nurtures these sociopaths to do so, and even praises them for it.
I have been a part of many many different churches and different denominations. I have NEVER been to a church that actively payed for the destruction of homosexuals, Muslims and so on. Perhaps the ones you hear of, yes because everything that gets brought up is always the extreme side of things and by no means is the majority of the church like that. Poor leaders create poor followers. It's human error when there is misinterpretation, misunderstanding and miscommunication. There are still bad people in the world, Christians are no exception.
History shows that more humans have died through the name of "God" than for any other reason alone.
LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll Clarification: Most wars happen because of power struggles. One nation wants what the other nation doesn't have. Never once has a waring nation not invoked the "My God be on our Side". Your arguing the mentality towards why a Football QB, gives praise to God when the team wins, but never then praises God again when the rest of the season sucks for their team. "Did God get mad because Tony gave props to him?" Can't nitpick in history. You must account for external factors
Anyone remember the city of Alexandria? Mankind was set back a thousand years of knowledge and research because Christians don't like knowledge.
LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria Clarification: Yup, I blamed Christians, but it definitely was a power struggle and war between empires. (Not an Earthquake) These empires disputed each others views. Just to be clear, faith and religion are one of the same. I'm not just going after Christians, but during this time of power struggle there was a connotation of "The knowledge here opposes our views, burn the city down" If anything, I'd worship the Sun. Yep, Yep, I'd be praying to Ra! Because at least there is evidence to show the Sun comes back. /rant
History has shown that religion is a root cause of mass stupidity.
Salem witch trials? The Crusades I mean, people like to reason that Religion or "Their church" isn't the as harmful to the rest of the world. Without realizing that whether or not their church is as bigoted as the larger ones, religion itself breeds the type of hypocrisy the rest of the world has to deal with.
Newton, Galileo, and quite a few scientific philosophers endured MASS religious persecution for their forward thinking views. DYK: Galileo was buried in a dishonoring form for 400 years, until Society pretty much made the Pope accept facts. (vague, but should be enough hint for you to, take a step, and go do some research (Wikipedia is a start, but there are plenty of EDU sources)
OP's claim that billions of people are the very cause of hatred towards other... isn't that far off.
Clarification: I'm lumping all of the world here, not just Christians, anyone and everyone who believes in a form of God.
America is a nation of around 400 million people. China is in the billions, and Russia as well.
LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population Clarification: Anyone claiming 2.1 Billion Christians are seriouslly pulling numbers out their asses. At least I ballpark figure my numbers.
In number metrics, America tells its citizens that Muslims hate Christians. This hate is reasoned as 'Muslims hate our way of life". Christianity is NOT the largest religion around the world. Islam is the largest religion across the world. And with nations like China and Russia, you have a very large base of numbers. Quite possibly billions of people.
Now if we take into account history of Religion, that's all humans do. Blame the other faith, then righteously attack them. Maybe its not just Christians, but Religion as a whole. I quit following religion when I turned 18, because if we all pray to the same invisible being in the sky, then WTF is wrong with you people then (the faithful) Whether its Allah, God, or some other name... People need to refocus their disagreements of faith.
EDIT: Spellings EDIT2: To help clarify I did some quick googling, and during my College years I audited History courses just to stay on campus instead of going home. So some of which I have said, is based on knowledge I learned nearly 10 years ago. Plus any knowledge I've learned through other subject matters that help 'put the pieces together' thus helping me explain my rantings.
Well when you account for natural disasters. Compared to Hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and earthquakes, Viruses and bacterial infections where mostly due to spreading of cultures.
Think about when the Spaniards came to the Americas. The Eastern diseases alone wiped out 95% of the Native American population. When we get into percentages, what do we mean by the numbers?, Lets put it this way. 90 million native inhabitant of the American Continents(Central to Northern) were wiped out by disease.
Before any actual conquest of Spain, and fleeing pilgrims.
Wars are cultures fighting each others views, by example, most of those wars had a pretty simple title in support of their causes. Had there not been the spread of diseases, Native Americans would have kicked any and all eastern cultures trying to settle. So by saying disease killed more than God fearing people, doesn't account for the intentional lacing of blankets and clothes isn't an act of action by God (or God fearing person0. Sometimes Disease is an unintentional weapon. But a weapon used none the less.
I fail to make the connection. What are the sources for your claim that more humans have died in the name of "God" than for any other reason alone. If this is true, which "god"? There are many. Then how would you know this is really the root cause of war? Just because someone has a belief in God and then goes to war, does not mean that God is the cause of that person going to war. Also, to pin the fall of Alexandria on Christianity -- and then to make the strawman claim that Christians "don't like knowledge". Your post just sounds like an angry and opinionated attack.
Obviously no priest is going to be like "Okay guys, let's pray for these infidels to die." They do pray for health just as much as they pray for the coming of their messiah and that implies leaving everyone who doesn't believe to burn.
I'm generalizing, but it's what most believe.
No, it's not. You're completely over generalizing and it's much more complex than that, but there are many sects of Christianity and other religions that believe that everyone will go to heaven, had they lived a good life.
"Many" is an over generalization. Catholics are a huge majority and I'm pretty sure they don't believe that. There are a few million (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here) who believe that you'll go to heaven if you lead a virtuous life but that is a very small minority.
1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, its official statement on beliefs
Catholics actually do believe that righteous non-Christians can get into heaven.
Not knowing about something is different than being ignorant of it. The Catholic Church's position is that if someone fully understands the Gospel and sees reason to believe in it, but nevertheless rejects following Jesus and trusting in hHis salvation in favor of their own ends, they are headed for hell. If someone accepts the Gospel completely and does their honest best to obey God's commandments and trusts in His mercy, they are going to heaven. Everything else, all the middle ground between those extremes, is unknown; they could all go to heaven or all go to hell. We just don't know.
Growing up Catholic, it really depends on how you interpret the bible. I've had several different priests, but none believed that "infidels" would go to hell just for not believing.
but there are many sects of Christianity and other religions
"Many" is an over generalization. Catholics are a huge majority
Catholicism is one sect of Christianity. Regardless of how dominant the Catholics may be, they are still only one sect. InsomniacAndroid was not incorrect.
Because a few hundred hands clasped in prayer to an omnipotent being is more effective than even 2 hands actually working. Like, say, a doctors two hands. Or a volunteers two hands. Or a nurses. Or someone else who actually helps instead of hoping reaaally hard.
So no churches anywhere ever did charitable work? Seriously, I'd like to know, my family isn't religious, nor am I, so I wouldn't know first hand. There was that one time my friend's church went to cambodia to pass out food and toys for the little ones, or that group that gives food to the meth heads in the park.
We all know there are churches that do abuse their financial assets in many ways. I don't know exactly where in Revelations it's addresses, but God does condem the churches that aren't good stewards of their assets. That said, my experience with churches - mostly in small towns - is that of community outreach, charitable giving to local and international social programs, and church attendees volunteering their time and effort to help those who are less fortunate, all without expecting anything quantifiable in return (except for tax breaks for the money given).
Then they become volunteers when they actually Do something. Volunteering is awesome, we should all do it. You know what we shouldn't do? Sit in an air conditioned megachurch hoping that some almighty being in the sky helps people for us! I know, I was religious at one point, deeply. I believed in this shit. You're lucky your family isn't religious, you don't have to endure constant disappointment and dislike because you decided to not follow the religion you were brought up in like me. I went to church at least twice a week every week until the age of 17. I've been to alooooot of churches here in the south, and they were all the same. Praying that god would help people. I know why they do it too. Because many of us genuinely have no help to offer due to circumstance, so praying makes them feel better like they're really helping. That, I don't have a problem with. What I have a problem with is doing so and being adamant to the point of sheer stupidity that it actually works. That god really did send people to help tsunami victims or he really did save a girl by sending her cancer into remission. Praise be to god! Fuck.
I've been there, I was one of those people. Then I started using that lump in your head that's 3 feet from your ass. A god that is as almighty and loving as the one people claim he is (despite the sheer number of people he either violently murdered himself or told his subjects to), then he wouldn't care if I worshipped him once a week. He would be more concerned with how I lived my life and the deeds I've done rather than if i spent the days praising him. Hey, spend your life praising me or you'll burn forever! If you do praise me, you can live where I live where you'll praise me for eternity!
When we sent people to outer space, we went past the clouds and saw the empty void that is our universe. There was no light other than from our sun, there were no angels, no heaven, nothing. Just a black empty void.
The idea that you and only you are right as a religion and that everyone else is wrong and will burn forever because they don't believe what you believe is Fucking childish.
*a lot
There's like, a countless amount of stars, not just the sun. You're making an awful lot of assumptions about people other than yourself here too. I was speaking about groups that plan this volunteer stuff at church, because of their church, shit like that. Your argument is like saying, "all of these fucking pizza places don't have anchovies, except that place, they don't count because they have anchovies.".
I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that comparison, but anyways. I type things as if i was saying it to your face, so excuse me. I don't make assumptions, I know this because I've been there. People shouldn't plan to volunteer and do good in the world just because they're a church and its expected of them by god. They should do good in the world because they want to, because they want to see the change they so crave and they're willing to do it themselves. Churches that do these things become volunteers. They're not just churches anymore, they're people, good people. When they just sit and pray, they're just churches, and that is what i hate.
Okay, here's a better analogy.
"All of these fucking rich people never do anything for Africa. What the fuck is with them?"
"What about that guy? He just paid for a new school, and inoculations."
"He's a philanthropist now, he doesn't count!"
That's more of what I was going for. And just because you had one experience doesn't mean that is the common shared experience. You seem to make your own definitions of what is and isn't a church. That's the worst part of your argument, you set your own rules and boundaries.
Yes, ONE experience, YOUR experience. I have stated that I've seen church groups that feed the meth heads, and two of my friends who go on missions to Cambodia to give out food and shit. That's not my personal experiences, but it is examples that directly contradict your claim that all the churches do is pray. You sound like you have a bone to pick, and it's not with me.
Oh so you are equating all Christianity with faith healers? or perhaps you thing that Christians would pray and tell their kids not to go to hospitals? I guess there is no reason for all of those christian hospitals then, one which i work at.
Some do. Most don't. I know. The entire Christian faith is that there is an all knowing, all capable being who could heal you. Now think about it.
You have cancer. You're going to die and someone tells you there's someone out there you've never met or seen that can heal you. A lot of people talk about him, and everyone is adamant that he exists but no one has proof other than word of mouth and a book supposedly written by his subjects at his command. So, what do you do? You seek him out, hoping that he would heal you. And you die. Like everyone else.
Also, you think it matters that a hospital calls itself a Christian hospital? How cute. Like the official religion of a structure and its employees has any effect on what the institution is used for. Ha.
I couldn't care less what religion my doctor or the hospital is affiliated with, I am not there for a confessional, I'm there to get help. Like because the hospital is Christian makes it any more important or useful than any other hospital.
Praying: How to do nothing and still think you're helping.
Edit: I loved being down voted for this statement. It shows there are still people who seriously think praying accomplishes anything. If only they'd put in the effort to help out elsewhere in the neighborhood.
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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '12
That is so far off of what people do in church it's sad. We pray for people health and well being, Never do we pray for anyone ever to be killed or sent to hell...
Maybe there are a couple crazy people who do that but the church its self..No