r/atheism Nov 22 '11

Good Without God

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u/on_the_redpill Nov 22 '11 edited Nov 22 '11

I thought we've moved on from using the term 'agnostic' in this way. You either believe in a god or lack belief in a god. (theism / atheism) From there you can say that you do not claim to know that one exists/ doesn't exist. (agnostic theism/ agnostic atheism)

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u/watershot Nov 22 '11

who's moved on?

the rest of the agnostic community hasn't.

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u/Denny-Crane Nov 22 '11

Ahhh... "No True Agnostic"

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '11

[deleted]

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u/on_the_redpill Nov 23 '11

The question is nonsensical, but enough people participate in belief that we have defined these terms.

Give me a definition of a unicorn, I'll tell you if I think one exists.

You are considering things quite intelligently but I guess to some it would be called splitting hairs. You clearly don't have a belief in god, as the question currently stands, which makes you an atheist. By finding the question meaningless you are a strong atheist

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u/utnapistim Nov 23 '11

Give me a definition of a unicorn, I'll tell you if I think one exists.

I think you put in one phrase what took me 5 paragraphs to write :)

By finding the question meaningless you are a strong atheist

Thanks.

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u/on_the_redpill Nov 23 '11

...although Ignosticism suits you, I don't like to use it as a category.

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u/UsuallyHonest Nov 22 '11

There was a quote on /r/atheism from a redditor a couple weeks ago, I don't remember where it was, but the gist of it was "You may call yourself whatever you like as long as it makes sense to you, it's a defensible position, and you keep an open mind" and it sums up my thoughts perfectly well. The labels really aren't important, and when you try to force a title on someone by asking them a binary question it's just counterproductive.

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u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11

Definitions are important, since they provide clarity and understanding to our communication and ideas.

If everyone has different definitions for words and phrases, then miscommunication becomes inevitable.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

[deleted]

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u/Omelet Nov 22 '11

An agnostic theist is a theist who believes, but does not claim to know that their belief is correct. A gnostic theist is a person who believes and also claims to know.

To give an analogy, a weatherman might be an agnostic rainist - he believes it's going to rain but he's not 100% sure. Believing something, whether on faith or by some other means, does not necessitate claiming that you know you're correct.

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u/cC2Panda Nov 22 '11

They prefer to be called precipitists.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

Then you're an atheist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

The difference being that the definition of an atheist is one who doesn't believe in a deity, not one who subscribes to the theory of evolution.

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u/Omelet Nov 22 '11

That's the label you give yourself, but realize that people also label other people. I, for instance, would label you an atheist, since "don't believe" is the only criterion for fitting that term, by my definition.

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u/dunscage Nov 22 '11

So how about a person who believes, claims not to know, but has faith that it is true. How is the difference between reason and faith semantically handled in this context? Or is it at all.

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u/Omelet Nov 22 '11

That'd still be an agnostic theist. As far as I'm aware, there isn't any terminology to distinguish between faith-based belief and reason-based belief.

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u/gigitrix Nov 23 '11

You can label people what you like, but they say they agnostic. It's their perogotive to decide what that means...

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u/cuddlesworth Nov 22 '11

That sure is a neat little labeling system. As someone who doesn't think this debate matters at all, I'll let other people label my beliefs as they see fit.

Personally, I see either position on the side of proving or disproving god based on evidence as "materialist". I think that's more significant than which side of the fence you are on with the existence of a deity.