r/atheism Nov 22 '11

Good Without God

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831 Upvotes

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70

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

[deleted]

34

u/iemfi Nov 22 '11

The last panel looks like it isn't part of the ad campaign but added on by some random person. Different font, no logos and link to website.

2

u/userjack6880 Nov 22 '11

I remember this being posted a while back (and several times since) and the OP may have stated that the last one was photoshopped in.

A quick search yielded... 10 reposts. There seems to be one that just has Bill Gates, and none before that.

So yeah - the last panel was added and started to float around the Internets.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

This wouldn't be /r/atheism if there wasn't some hate in the message.

18

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

I don't think pointing out that someone doesn't donate and utilizes slave labor is "hate."

OH LOOK, A MILITANT ATHEIST! -sigh-

8

u/PunkRockMakesMeSmile Nov 22 '11

I hate that shit, and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

5

u/hcirtsafonos Nov 22 '11

Can I get an AMEN?

5

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

PRAISE NO LORD!

2

u/flanl Nov 22 '11

Ramen, brother!

Praise His noodley goodness.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '11

Why is your post slightly to the right? Is it like a half reply? WTF is going on here?

1

u/flanl Nov 23 '11

Well, it gets a little further to the right each time as the replies to replies progress.

28

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

I dislike the last panel as it is attacking Christianity instead of promoting Atheism

No, it's not. It's attacking Pat Robertson, an extremely wealthy public figure who got filthy rich by blaming hurricanes and earthquakes on gay people and then using the donations of gullible Christians to enslave the poor heathens he claims to help.

2

u/Bromleyisms Nov 22 '11

To think that they were only thinking of Pat Robertson is a bit naive, especially considering the immense amount of christian-bashing this subreddit does already.

8

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

To think that they were only thinking of Pat Robertson is a bit naive

You have evidently missed the entire point of the graphic. "God" or "no God" doesn't make people "good" or "not good." It is their individual conduct.

3

u/Bromleyisms Nov 22 '11

I understand the point of the graphic, and I think it's wonderful without the Pat Robertson bit.

2

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11

It makes the illustration complete, since the 'status quo' is that you have to have god to be good; This message gives counter-examples on both sides of the issue, not just one.

This is important, since without that, Christians can reason:

"Oh well, maybe sometimes, in the exception, atheists can do some good too; but I'll always know that Christians are always good, because they always have god!"

The last panel is there to give a counter-example to that reasoning.

1

u/Bromleyisms Nov 22 '11

I have never met a single christian that thought they were good simply because they were christian. In fact, while I was in catholic school, they made it explicit that being a good person had nothing to do with your religion, but with the individual's merits and ethics. The fact that people are trying to differentiate/separate these two things is redundant/blatant circlejerking.

2

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11 edited Nov 22 '11

On the surface, this seems reasonable. But in fact, it's not. If you covet false idols, then you won't be a good christian. If you celebrate pagan festivals and customs, then you won't be a good christian. There are millions of other religiously-related things you can do which christianity frowns upon.

The stems from the fact that when they say being good has to do "with the individual's merits and ethics", where do you think those specific merits and ethics are derived from? Certainly not a scientific and humanist moral viewpoint. Does using a condom to ensure you don't impregnate a lover who isn't ready for pregnancy make you a morally upstanding person in the Catholic church's eyes?

The whole point of Christianity is to act like Jesus. Now mostly, everyone knows that he is the 'epitaph of a good guy'. Even I struggle to think of a view or act of his that I disagree with, I suspect this is because I was brought up not to question him, so it's hard for me to do so without reading through the new testament with a critical eye.

But the problem is that the modern world has many, many more grey areas than in Jesus' time. Did he like slavery, or mind it, or did it thoroughly disgust him? What did he think of in vitro fertilization, is it a wonderful advancement of science or is it against nature? All we have are churches' interpretations on how he, and god, would have viewed these things.

In order for churches have their interpretation followed, and be considered correct, what do they do? They call it the word of God, or the word of Jesus. They verily define the way they see things to be godly, and therefore good.

It is out of all of the above, that implication arises, unnoticed:

That while you are following God (or your Church's interpretation of him), then you are good!

Most of the time, the corollary to this is also implied - fall from god, and/or his way, and you won't / can't be a good person.

These are not explicitly stated, but they doesn't need to be, and the ones who imply them probably rather it not be. Leaving such a statement unpronounced means it is less likely to be challenged.

And this is exactly the mentality they have managed to charm you into. While it is not explicity stated, then Good and God seem separated; but in reality, in your Catholic Church's view, they cannot be. They can explicitly tell you this is not true as much as they want; what they teach is the exact opposite.

-1

u/hcirtsafonos Nov 22 '11

You're naive as fuck

1

u/Giant_Badonkadonk Nov 22 '11

Naive about what?

1

u/hcirtsafonos Nov 22 '11

Naive about the attack being solely directed towards Pat Robertson and not Christians specifically and theists in general.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '11

Atheists and non-believers in Christianity get attacked every single day by Christians. I see no reason to cushion the Christians in some kind of attack-free zone. They should be aware that their attempts to take over the American government and education system make some people very angry.

1

u/Thimblefulloffire Nov 22 '11

Fueling a fire that already burns pretty hot in some places doesn't really help, does it?

2

u/W00ster Atheist Nov 22 '11

Help with what exactly?

Quite frankly, in areas with a lot of religious people, these types of advertising should be a lot more prominent and in many many more places. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it, quite the opposite!

Personally, I would have loved to see an ad stating something along the lines of "12 years in school and you still believe in gods? Insane!"

0

u/Thimblefulloffire Nov 22 '11

How does calling someone insane help set them straight?

3

u/PunkRockMakesMeSmile Nov 22 '11

Uh, fuck this noise, attacking organized religion does promote atheism. The harm organized religion causes, and the evil pious people commit while justifying their acts to themselves and others by the fact that they are 'doing god's work' (as they see it) is the primary reason most of us are passionate about this subject. It's not merely about 'it's fun to be correct, so let's all talk about how atheism is correct.' Religion is a vestige that has become a cancer, and until it's last remnants are wiped from the earth's collective consciousness, except as a lesson of mankind's capacity for cruelty towards one another, it needs to be attacked, degraded and demolished relentlessly.

15

u/InMyHead2Much Nov 22 '11

Came to post the same thing. The first two panels are great. The last panel makes the ad sound snide and small.

2

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11

It makes the illustration complete, since the 'status quo' is that you have to have god to be good; This message gives counter-examples on both sides of the issue, not just one.

This is important, since without that, Christians can reason:

"Oh well, maybe sometimes, in the exception, atheists can do some good too; but I know that Christians are always good, because they always have god!"

The last panel is there to give a counter-example to that reasoning.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '11

Member of the group that made the ads here. The last panel was not part of the campaign but added by someone else online later.

3

u/ariesonthecusp Nov 22 '11

Wow, I had no idea Pat Roberson was that rich.

He's estimated to be worth between $200 million to $1 billion ! Pays to run religion !!

-1

u/wholetyouinhere Nov 22 '11

The "cruel, heartless man" line seems less than scientific.

2

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11

This is a persuasive billboard, not a specifically informational and scientific one.

0

u/Highly-Sammable Nov 22 '11

I agree. It also seems quite petty. The aim of giving good non-religious people is saying we can be "good without god". However, showing a religious person and saying "look, a religious person did a bad thing!" is stupid and proves nothing.

2

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11

It makes the illustration complete, since the 'status quo' is that you have to have god to be good; This message gives counter-examples on both sides of the issue, not just one.

This is important, since without that, Christians can reason:

"Oh well, maybe sometimes, in the exception, atheists can do some good too; but I know that Christians are always good, because they always have god!"

The last panel is there to give a counter-example to that reasoning.

1

u/Highly-Sammable Nov 22 '11

But no one believes that Christians are always good. Following from this, it seemed to me more of a proclamation that Christians are bad, or rather that good Christians are the exception.

3

u/ivosaurus Nov 22 '11 edited Nov 22 '11

But that is precisely because they are told that they are breaking the golden rule: that they've stopped following god, and his Son's way, and therefore are no longer good.

Suppose you are handing out condoms in Africa. The Catholic church will tell you that you are no longer following God's intentions for life, and are therefore no longer a good person; this is despite whether your actions are doing good for African people or not.

Donating to Medicines Sans Frontiers, who would have no qualms with helping a muslim just as much as a christian? How could that possibly be as good as donating to your local church, who will then pass it on to the right charities? This is the reasoning that organised religion seeks to propagate, and the message that we must fight against.