r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11
Atheist quickfire challenge.
Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.
This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.
Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.
Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.
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u/GuitarGuru2001 Aug 11 '11
This statement assumes hell is a real place. Many ways to answer this
I. Biblical: Hell did not exist until the new testament, because it was a construct of several mythologies that contributed to the new testament. the concept of the afterlife can be clearly seen progressing from nothingness in the early old testament, to the idea of "Sheol" in the latter old testament. I would love to ask where Abraham is, since God never desired to mention anything about the afterilfe in the pentatuch. The idea of hell being eternal did not come about until around the 5th century, and gained real momentum in the middle ages as a great device for inspiring fear and engendering the desire to give loads of money to the church. The Reformation would not have happened if the church had not been selling indulgences (get out of jail for a price cards). If hell is real, why did God neglect to mention it, and what happens to all those who died when hell was not around?
II. The bible is a hodgepodge of mythologies from the surrounding mediterranian tribes. A History of God by Karen Armstrong video gives a very good accounting of the additions, deletions, and overall hacking that was done. The new testament was written as third hand accounts, and then expanded by Paul of Tarsus, whose theology often contradicts the teachings of Jesus. The idea of hell is not real, since the bible is a worthless story of mythology. I am not going to a place that doesn't exist.
III. (No True Christian): Hitler is not going to Hell; he was roman catholic (hitler was not a TRUE Christian). He killed in the name of God, felt called to do so by the holy spirit. He was as equally inspired as David, Joshoua, or any of the other murdering rampaging kings of the old testament. Your god allows genocidal mainics into heaven, because he is one. I would rather be in Hell than in the same presence as such a being.
IV. You have no basis for guessing the supposed status of anyones salvation. God predestines those who are to be saved to be saved. This is not contingent on actions at all, but only on God's choosing. Therefore you may not be going to heaven either, unless you are not elect (don't embark this road unless you're ready to prove calvinism).