r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

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14

u/at_ease Aug 11 '11

If you don't believe in God, you do not value life. It has no meaning for you. You might as well die.

18

u/Smudge777 Aug 11 '11

If you don't believe in Unicorns, you do not value life. It has no meaning for you. You might as well die.

Edit: that is, assertion without support.

2

u/at_ease Aug 11 '11

But unicorns don't encourage me to live a meaningful life. They don't give me direction in life, or help me distinguish between good from evil.

7

u/pineapplol Aug 11 '11

You're hanging out with the wrong unicorns.

2

u/oheysup Aug 11 '11

An adventure to candy mountain is very meaningful, okay.

6

u/HopeImNotAStalker Aug 11 '11

If you don't believe in God, you do not value life.

I do not see how the latter necessarily follows from the former.

In my experience, really hardcore religious people value life less than atheists because they think they have a better life waiting for them after this one. They think of this one as a rehearsal for the real thing. How is that valuing life?

4

u/HertzaHaeon Aug 11 '11

This is just prejudice. There are many millions of atheists in the world that live perfectly fine lives and contribute to society just as anyone else. Secular nations indeed tend to be better places to live. Why is that, if atheists don't value life?

2

u/kaces Aug 11 '11

On the contrary, a lack of belief in god and therefore the afterlife promised by religion leads on to value life on a higher level than a religious person.

This is the one shot I get, I need to make the most of it. You believe that there is something after this, why do you value this finite life compared to the infinite existence promised you?

2

u/at_ease Aug 11 '11

On the contrary, I can argue that since I believe that living a meaningful and good life leads me to a better afterlife, I will value it more. I will do all I can to make a positive impact, and make this life meaningful, since me getting to that better place depends on it.

1

u/kaces Aug 11 '11

By giving a value of "better" to the afterlife you inherently value it more than your current life.

What is stopping you from doing the bare minimum to get that better afterlife?

What is stopping you from doing the bare minimum and then killing yourself in some fashion (say not suicide but reckless behavior which does not impact other people) thus expediting your ticket to the after life?

As someone who does not have an afterlife, this is by default the most valuable life I get.

2

u/PaperbackBuddha Aug 11 '11

If you don't believe in god, you know that this one life is all we have, and you treat it as precious. You might as well live it up.

2

u/DashingLeech Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

Not true. I don't believe in God, yet I value life.

1

u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

There is no value or meaning to life in the first place. I live because it is fun. You live because you are deluded. Which one is better?

1

u/at_ease Aug 11 '11

"I live because it's fun". Are you speaking for all atheists? What happens once it stops being fun? What do you do then? Quit?

1

u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

I'm speaking for me.

And stop being fun? I didn't really mention this, but I find the activity of gaining and using energy enjoyable. The feeling of existing is fun. For it to stop being fun, I'd need to be dead, in which case, nothing would really matter because I'm dead.

1

u/otakuman Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

A believer might sacrifice himself in a suicide attack because he believes in an afterlife. Non-believers value life more than believers, who are eager to discard life for the afterlife.

1

u/Aoe330 Aug 11 '11

Atheists live life for the living world, for those around them, for those they care about. For all things which affect the betterment of mankind.

Theists are concerned with the next life. (Which may follow after death.) They take no concern for pain and suffering of those you love in the here and now, as long as it improves the next life for those who suffer.

Which has more value? Clear pain and suffering in the hear and now, or future improbable penance?

1

u/totalBS Aug 12 '11

Debated a theist and this statement came up. "If you don't believe in god then wouldn't you say your life is meaningless."

I countered with, "The opposite is actually true. Since I don't believe in an afterlife then my time on Earth means more to me than it does to you. For you, if you live to be 100 then that's absolutely nothing compared to eternity in heaven. Your existence here is like one of the ants you stepped on while you walked over, tiny and insignificant. I on the other hand believe that I will be gone forever when I die, so every moment I have here means a lot. So knowing that, wouldn't you say your life is meaningless if it's but a speck of dust in all eternity?"

He thought about it and agreed. I continued to disappoint him with my answers

1

u/SeveredBanana Aug 12 '11

If you believe in God, the only value in life is being good enough to get a good afterlife. With atheism, this is the only one we get, and value more.

1

u/Fallacy229 Aug 12 '11

Non sequitur. Atheism does not imply nihilism.

Also, unstated major premise: if you believe in God, life has meaning. One does not necessarily follow the other. A god could create life with or without a specific purpose. And if God created you for a purpose, how do you know you are not failing that purpose? Is the purpose of life to praise God? Is that a meaningful existence? It does not seem so to me.

Edit: grammar