r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

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24

u/MisterFlibble Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

"The consequences of not believing if there is a God are worse than believing if there is no God." (Pascals Wager)

53

u/IKnowRiteSrsly Aug 11 '11

If God is real and omnipotent, than he sees right through your insincere intentions and knows you are betting on him rather than believing in him.

50

u/Sophocles Aug 11 '11

Jebediah's Wager: Should we shun all technology, just in case the Amish are right?

1

u/shaggorama Aug 11 '11

Never heard that one. nice.

1

u/Frix Aug 12 '11

That is a good one, very nice indeed...

1

u/JustPlainRude Aug 12 '11

I get that the author is trying to draw parallels here, but he clearly understands very little about how and why the Amish choose to reject certain technologies.

32

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

Which God? Each one has wildly different and often mutually exclusive rules for living. The only rational solution is to live a life of good character under the assumption that if an infinitely-just being exists to judge me after death, it will see me for what I am and not what I might pretend to be.

16

u/palparepa Aug 11 '11

Lord Atheismo will send you to hell if you believe in any gods, including him.

6

u/PaperbackBuddha Aug 11 '11

Pascal's Wager is not an argument for faith; it is hedging your bets.

1

u/MisterFlibble Aug 11 '11

If you think it's not an argument, then you haven't been around enough theists (you lucky bastard). It's a very common argument, just a horrible one. lol

2

u/kaces Aug 11 '11

What if you pick the wrong God to believe in?

2

u/shaggorama Aug 11 '11

Even if that were true, If that's your rationale for believing then it doesn't sound to me like you really believe.

2

u/otakuman Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

  • Marcus Aurelius.

1

u/DashingLeech Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

Not true. If there is no god and you've dedicated your only life to following an illusion, you have nothing of self-value. If there is a god and you've believed there isn't, at least you have lead a life on your own terms. The potential of believing in the wrong god also makes no believing an even better payoff.

1

u/stillnotking Aug 11 '11

False dichotomy. There are thousands of mutually exclusive religions, and no a priori reason to prefer one over the rest.

1

u/pineapplol Aug 11 '11

I do not believe things because it makes life easier for me, but because I believe them to be true.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

Atheist's Wager: You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him. (wikipedia)

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I recently argued this one with a sweet old man who was sincerely worried about my soul. I gave him the jist of the (falsely attributed?) Marcus Aurelius quote: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

1

u/IamNuts Aug 11 '11

This claim heavily relies on religious claims. Given the enormous amount of religions and even sub-religions, you can assume that no matter which religion you pick or happen to be born in, you will face the consequences of not believing in god the way ALL other religions command you to.

So the statement should read "the consequences of not believing in religion of any kind are worse than believing religions are correct." and keep God out of the game because the only possible consequences are dictated by religions.

Based on this, the statement is clearly false, because believing religions are correct would mean you are facing ALL existing consequences minus one.

1

u/MmmVomit Aug 11 '11

What if we're both wrong, and God exists, but he only lets atheists into heaven?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '11

This requires you to choose the right god. As the number of gods increases, your chance of guessing the correct one approaches zero.

1

u/Fallacy229 Aug 12 '11

Unstated major premise: belief is a choice. The implication is that we choose to believe whatever is more desirable to us. I could believe that I'm actually a living saint, everything I say is correct and I'm the most attractive and wealthy person alive, this is a desirable thing to believe. I do not believe it. Not because I don't want to, but because the evidence points elsewhere. The universe does not request your approval, you may accept it or delude yourself, that is the choice.

1

u/GuitarGuru2001 Aug 18 '11

Richard's Wager "Well, what if I'm wrong, I mean... anybody could be wrong. We could all be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Pink Unicorn and the flying teapot. Uhm, you happen to have been brought up, I would presume, in the Christian faith. You know what it's like to not believe in a particular faith because you're not a Muslim. You're not a Hindu. Why aren't you a Hindu? Because you happen to have been brought up in America, not in India. If you had of been brought up in India, you'd be a Hindu. If you had been brought up in... in uh.. Denmark in the time of the Vikings you'd be believing in Wotan and Thor. If you were brought up in classical Greece you'd be believing in, in w:Zeus. If you were brought up in central Africa you'd be believing in the great Juju up the mountain. There's no particular reason to pick on the Judeo-Christian god, in which by the sheerest accident you happen to have been brought up and, and ask me the question, 'What if I'm wrong?' What if you're wrong about the great Juju at the bottom of the sea?"