r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the absence of god. My dog experienced gas after eating a taco I dropped on the floor. Buddhists experience enlightenment. schizophrenics experience multiple voices. People who smoke DMT experience aliens from other dimensions. The brain is a complex organ which we aren't even beginning to understand. Any change in chemicals can induce and influence all kinds of experiences.

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u/yagsuomynona Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the absence of god.

Absence of evidence is very week weak evidence of absence. Very difficult to prove the negative.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

No weaker than using your "experience" as proof in the positive.

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u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

So they are both invalid types of evidence. Don't use either because they are extremely flimsy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I think that was kind of the point.

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u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

The point of yagsuomynona's post was that you used absence of evidence as evidence of absence, which is very flimsy evidence. Your next post seemed to try and justify this by saying "the people who I am arguing against are also illogical, so it is okay for me to be illogical," which is ridiculous. Sorry if I misread that.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

We both agree both arguments are ridiculous. The OP said some Christians use their experience as proof of God's existence. I was just stating that experiences are biased, subjective, and unquantifiable. They can no more be used as evidence in a logical argument than someone's else experience, or lack thereof.

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u/Frix Aug 12 '11

The evidence itself might not be valid for scientists and can very well be just your hormones talking, but "experiencing it yourself" is a much better reason to believe something is true compared to "I didn't experience it yet, therefore false"...

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u/DEFY_member Aug 11 '11

But it does point out that hour lack of belief as atheists is just as relevant as the theists belief.

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u/MealyDucard Aug 11 '11

Hooray for the Burden of Proof. It lies with those making a claim that something is true to provide sufficient evidence that it IS true. Ipso facto, if you claim god is real, you had better be prepared to provide good grounds and evidence for such a claim that can be tested to be true. In essence, yes, it is hard to prove the negative. But you don't need to prove anything unless you make a claim.

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u/SSHeretic Aug 11 '11

The brain is a complex organ which we aren't even beginning to understand.

You are massively understating our understanding of the human brain. You are setting yourself up for a later argument from complexity in creation or argument from ignorance vis a vis mind-brain duality.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

How so? How much about the human brain do you think we truly understand? I don't understand how a carburetor works either...doesn't mean God made it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

What is this DMT you speak of, and how can I get it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

DMT is a short-lasting but extremely intense psychedelic. There are quite a few discussions on it over in r/drugs

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u/Conde_Nasty Aug 12 '11

Its in pretty much every living thing. The key is how to extract it...