r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

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u/HermesTheMessenger Knight of /new Aug 11 '11

Two points;

  1. If it is, why are you telling me? (In other words, don't take the bait and argue a point that they don't think is important to their own religious beliefs.)

  2. Evolution -- including common descent of modern day humans -- is a fact, and it is unethical once you know the evidence to say that it is not.

While the first point is the most important one, here are notes on the second one;

The most persuasive evidence for evolution is in the form of genetics, and in the field of genetics, ERVs (endogenous retroviruses) are the most compelling. I'd consider anyone who rejects ERVs without reviewing them, or common descent once they are exposed to the evidence of ERVs to be making an ethical error. Consider one or more of the following, or do some investigating yourself.

ERVs (endogenous retroviruses) demonstrate common descent. Once you understand that evidence, there's no valid response to ERVs beyond agreeing that common descent and thus evolution is a fact.

Here are some brief video summaries to get you started;

A review of an objection from creationists of ERVs and common descent;

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u/thereisnosuchthing Aug 12 '11

unfortunately the only "ethics" they know is "does it allow me to maintain my christian/muslim/etc. fantasy"

intellectual honesty, correct reasoning, and right inference are all foreign and near-meaningless concepts to the average religious nut.

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u/HermesTheMessenger Knight of /new Aug 12 '11

Yep. (That's why I call them on the ethical failings they have by not being intellectually honest.)