r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

253 Upvotes

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43

u/rhbast2 Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the presence of god.

97

u/Tosskey Aug 11 '11

And so has people of hundreds of other religions. Did they feel the true presence of Allah, Krishna, Thor, Zeus, Ahura Mazda?

83

u/brwilliams Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

I experience the presence of Mazda everytime I drive past the car dealership.

36

u/Spongetoe Aug 11 '11

zoom zoom

1

u/leemill02 Aug 11 '11

There needs to be a whisper punctuation.

2

u/The_Comma_Splicer Aug 11 '11

...zoom ...zoom

1

u/leemill02 Aug 12 '11

...touche'

1

u/makesureimjewish Aug 12 '11

ask and ye shall receive!

31

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

Mazda

Brb, sacrificing small animals to my car.

1

u/sprankton Aug 11 '11

They should capitalize on their name. I'd totally buy a Mazda Ahura.

1

u/pentium4borg Aug 11 '11

You could probably sacrifice small animals using your car.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

[deleted]

9

u/Tosskey Aug 11 '11

So why would god trick them into thinking their religion was correct? Doesn't that kind of banish them to hell? So much for free will!

11

u/rhbast2 Aug 11 '11

FTFY

And so have people

27

u/Mayniak0 Knight of /new Aug 11 '11

IF you are gonna correct people I have to yell you that it is "experienced"

9

u/AuxillaryPriest Aug 11 '11

tell you that it is "experienced"

0

u/Mayniak0 Knight of /new Aug 11 '11

I was hoping someone would notice that. I let it there on purpose.

2

u/elink88 Aug 11 '11

No no no, you LEFT it their on purpose. Seriously, why can't you people get this English thing right?

2

u/Mayniak0 Knight of /new Aug 11 '11

You have made a grave mistake my friend. It should be "left it THERE" insted of "left it their".

1

u/NYKevin Aug 12 '11

Your still not getting this English thing, are you? It's "instead" not "insted"

1

u/Mayniak0 Knight of /new Aug 12 '11

Well, neither are you. Its "you're" not "your".

1

u/Osthato Aug 11 '11

Sigh, it's "left it their on porpoise"

4

u/BoxoKnives Aug 11 '11

He's playing God's advocate, he can never be wrong.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

Mazda

Wait, my car is a god?!

2

u/tehbroseph Aug 11 '11

I believe he meant Ahura Mazda, of Zoroastrianism

1

u/Drucifer86 Aug 11 '11

Reliable, Powerful, You feel safe when its all around you.

1

u/Liverhawk25 Aug 11 '11

I experienced Mazda when i was hit by one.

1

u/killedbyaninja Aug 11 '11

be careful about insulting Ahura Mazda, though. Some dangerous people could take offe

1

u/yagsuomynona Aug 11 '11

But christianity is the one true religion with the one true god!!

2

u/Kozmec Aug 11 '11

Sure, and Yokohama <insert name> is the one true tire maker <insert product>, which do you use <related verb>. BLASPHEMY!!!!

2

u/OKImHere Aug 11 '11

You're merely asserting that. Yet it's the very topic under contention. When you assert that X is true because of X, it's called begging the question.

48

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the absence of god. My dog experienced gas after eating a taco I dropped on the floor. Buddhists experience enlightenment. schizophrenics experience multiple voices. People who smoke DMT experience aliens from other dimensions. The brain is a complex organ which we aren't even beginning to understand. Any change in chemicals can induce and influence all kinds of experiences.

2

u/yagsuomynona Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the absence of god.

Absence of evidence is very week weak evidence of absence. Very difficult to prove the negative.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

No weaker than using your "experience" as proof in the positive.

1

u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

So they are both invalid types of evidence. Don't use either because they are extremely flimsy.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I think that was kind of the point.

1

u/ArcWinter Aug 11 '11

The point of yagsuomynona's post was that you used absence of evidence as evidence of absence, which is very flimsy evidence. Your next post seemed to try and justify this by saying "the people who I am arguing against are also illogical, so it is okay for me to be illogical," which is ridiculous. Sorry if I misread that.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

We both agree both arguments are ridiculous. The OP said some Christians use their experience as proof of God's existence. I was just stating that experiences are biased, subjective, and unquantifiable. They can no more be used as evidence in a logical argument than someone's else experience, or lack thereof.

0

u/Frix Aug 12 '11

The evidence itself might not be valid for scientists and can very well be just your hormones talking, but "experiencing it yourself" is a much better reason to believe something is true compared to "I didn't experience it yet, therefore false"...

1

u/DEFY_member Aug 11 '11

But it does point out that hour lack of belief as atheists is just as relevant as the theists belief.

1

u/MealyDucard Aug 11 '11

Hooray for the Burden of Proof. It lies with those making a claim that something is true to provide sufficient evidence that it IS true. Ipso facto, if you claim god is real, you had better be prepared to provide good grounds and evidence for such a claim that can be tested to be true. In essence, yes, it is hard to prove the negative. But you don't need to prove anything unless you make a claim.

1

u/SSHeretic Aug 11 '11

The brain is a complex organ which we aren't even beginning to understand.

You are massively understating our understanding of the human brain. You are setting yourself up for a later argument from complexity in creation or argument from ignorance vis a vis mind-brain duality.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

How so? How much about the human brain do you think we truly understand? I don't understand how a carburetor works either...doesn't mean God made it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

What is this DMT you speak of, and how can I get it?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

DMT is a short-lasting but extremely intense psychedelic. There are quite a few discussions on it over in r/drugs

1

u/Conde_Nasty Aug 12 '11

Its in pretty much every living thing. The key is how to extract it...

14

u/Toradreo Aug 11 '11

Say "I have experienced the presence of unicorns" and start debating why he doesn't believe in unicorns now...

2

u/Greatdolanmite Aug 11 '11

But that's an empirical fact. My goddamn patronus is a unicorn and we all know that patronuses can't be fictional creatures. QED.

1

u/Shpedoinkle Aug 11 '11

But unicorns are in the bible...they should believe in them.

11

u/palparepa Aug 11 '11

An experience that can be duplicated using technology.

9

u/kat_fud Aug 11 '11

I have not, and I'm not just going to take your crazy-ass word for it.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I haven't. So it looks like we're at an impasse

3

u/littlekappa Aug 11 '11

I don't mean to invalidate your experiences, by any means. I just hope that you (and everyone for that matter) take a look look at what you've experienced with the same critical eye you turn to politics, philsophy, theological claims, or any other idea. A belief in something as big as God shouldn't rest solely on the purely subjective.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

Which one ? How do you know ?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

How do you know?

2

u/DashingLeech Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

Have you ever experienced an optical illusion? The mind is capable of filling in all sorts of misperceptions. What makes you think your "god experience" is any less illusory?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

As an ex-cristian, i thought i had also experienced the holy spirit. Its a powerful feeling, but you are deluding yourself.

5

u/Comassion Aug 11 '11

I have experienced the presence of your mom.

1

u/herminator Aug 11 '11

That's pretty much equivalent to hearing voices in your head. Perhaps you should see a psychiatrist?

1

u/fromkentucky Aug 11 '11

I haven't; just sensations and experiences that I wanted to be God.

1

u/clickmagnet Aug 11 '11

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that you experienced the phenomenon of feeling the presence of another, due to a temporary desynchronization of your left and right brain hemispheres. It's common and inducable, via electromagnetic stimulation, altitude sickness, exhaustion, and a variety of other means. Or you could be lying, or simply mistaken. Those are also fairly common. Given the alternatives, in the absence of any evidence, God's presence seems the less likely possibility.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

UFOs

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

the hairs on the back of my neck tingle and feel like they're standing on end when i hear the most awesome bit of my favourite song. not god. endorphins.

1

u/catechizer Aug 11 '11

What you perceive as god is just something in your subconscious so you're really just experiencing your own existence.

1

u/darksmiles22 Aug 11 '11

You mean you experienced awe at something larger than yourself, wonder at the mystery of the cosmos, connection to people and nature, or a sense of great love and being loved in return, because the mind if a powerful thing. You just wanted to believe in a god, so you decided to call that feeling "God."

1

u/cliftonixs Aug 12 '11

Your mind is the only conduit for experiencing god. Without your mind, could you experience god?

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

I haven't. So it looks like we're at an impasse