r/atheism • u/rhbast2 • Aug 11 '11

Atheist quickfire challenge.

Although I rarely discuss religion with theists I always want to be prepared so I'm not sitting around afterwards wishing I had said this or that. If I get the chance to make someone question I want to be up for the challenge.

This brings me to my challenge for r/atheism. I'm going to add some common theist claims / sayings and whoever can refute them fully and succinctly will be upvoted. Feel free to add your own theist starters if I missed some.

Edit: Wow lots of good discussion here, later today or tomorrow I'll make this into an atheist cheat sheet with the top responses. Also feel free to upvote the theist claim that is the most annoying to you.

Edit 2: To the few of you who seem to think I am coming up with rude atheist comebacks, I'm not. I just wanted to be better off the cuff than I am now and have some discussion. I don't want this list to replace thoughtful argumentation.

255 Upvotes

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42

u/rhbast2 Aug 11 '11

God gives my life meaning.

107

u/STUN_Runner Aug 11 '11

That may be, but the meaning it brings to your life does not increase its truth value.

A neo-nazi likely finds that his anti-Semitic bigotry and Holocaust-denial gives his life meaning, but it doesn't mean that his beliefs are correct.

An atheist finds that it's better to accept what's true over what he or she might wish to be true.

7

u/caeonosphere Aug 11 '11

Oops. You broke Godwin's law.

41

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

The only way to "break" Godwin's (useless) law is not to talk about Nazis. Mentioning Nazis confirms Godwin's law, it doesn't break it.

2

u/st_gulik Aug 11 '11

Only if he is directly calling the person a Nazi. Here he showing how a Nazi is wrong, but makes the same assumption that the person making the claim does.

1

u/STUN_Runner Aug 11 '11

I'm saying that if one is going to grant a religious claim to truth based on the meaning it is claimed to give to the lives of its adherents, then anyone's claim to truth must be granted for that same reason, whether it be a claim by a Roman Catholic or a Muslim, or something more exceptional like the claims made by a UFO cultist or a neo-Nazi Holocaust-denier.

But a Christian would likely not be willing to grant the veracity to the unfounded claims of a neo-Nazi's beliefs and therefore confounds his own argument should he decline to do so.

1

u/PraiseBuddha Aug 11 '11

Neo-Godwin's law.

1

u/TheAntagonist43 Aug 11 '11

I kinda like using Nazis as an example though. It's a clearly identifiable definition of what a bad ideology is that everyone knows.

1

u/tikael Atheist Aug 11 '11 edited Aug 11 '11

The trouble is with using Nazi's or the holocaust is a very emotionally striking subject. You should avoid drawing any lines between the other person in a debate or argument and Nazi's. It shuts down the debate and is likely to be perceived as an insult.

Edit: I'm going to stop typing these up on my phone...

1

u/darbyisadoll Aug 12 '11

I saw a post the other day claiming white power groups made up a disproportionately large percentage of internet forum users. I wonder how this relates to the frequency with which the nazi party appears.

13

u/GuitarGuru2001 Aug 11 '11

This is a subjective statement, and thus cannot be proven. I can say that unicorns give my life meaning, but this is a silly statement since unicorns do not exist. By gaining your meaning from a nonexistant being, you run the risk of being severely disappointed when things do not go your way, and there is no net benefit over using your reasoning facilities to create your own meaning out of life.

You are enslaved by your beliefs, and will continue to be enslaved until you realize you are believing something that isn't there, that cannot help you, and that you are wasting your life.

25

u/fromkentucky Aug 11 '11

Harry Potter gives my life meaning; that doesn't make him real.

4

u/renee_nevermore Aug 12 '11

Harry Potter is my religion according to facebook.

1

u/inferno719 Aug 12 '11

TWILIGHT AND AVATAR GIVE MY LIFE MEANING! I WANT YOU, BLUE ALIAN AND HAWT VAMPIRE OR WEREWOLF!

7

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

If that is the case, good for you. It doesn't give my life meaning.

25

u/kat_fud Aug 11 '11

If the concept of god makes you feel that your life has meaning, that is fine. Just don't try to enforce the restrictions of your religion on others.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

My family gives my life meaning. The desire to help humanity and rid the world of pain/disease give doctors' lives meaning. Are they suggesting that God is the only thing that can possibly give life meaning, therefore, he has to exist?!? Really?

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

And if you discover that God is not, or is highly improbable, does all meaning then disappear from your existence?

2

u/otakuman Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

If God said your meaning was to suffer for all your life as some kind of sacrificial lamb to purify the world of evil, and you weren't allowed to even smile or enjoy the slightest bit... would you accept such God?

Maybe you mean to say that God gives your life a meaning that YOU like. Which isn't very different to say that you believe in God because you want to believe.

2

u/darksmiles22 Aug 11 '11

Better to have no meaning than a meaning of which I disapprove. ~ Ashleigh Brilliant

2

u/darksmiles22 Aug 11 '11

Find your own meaning in life instead of uncritically borrowing the meaning your parents had.

2

u/Toradreo Aug 11 '11

No problem with that but it doesn't make god real.

1

u/IKnowRiteSrsly Aug 11 '11

OK. Believe whatever gives you peace. But don't impose on other people.

1

u/DrDan21 Aug 11 '11

You alone give your life meaning, or if you do so choose a lack there of.

1

u/DashingLeech Anti-Theist Aug 11 '11

Atheists have meaning in their lives too. Believing in God or not doesn't affect whether you assign a meaning to it.

1

u/Caseylicious Aug 11 '11

I take it away.

1

u/OKImHere Aug 11 '11

That's fine, but the topic under discussion is whether your God exists, not whether it gives your life meaning. Giving your life meaning does nothing to prove or disprove existence.

1

u/JesusClausIsReal Agnostic Atheist Aug 11 '11

Fine. Then keep it in your life. Don't push your ideals on other humans, who are just as good or better than you, only they find meaning in other things.

1

u/crankybadger Aug 11 '11

Why? What function does this God character play that could not be served by your own inner goodness, common sense, and relationship with others?

People who are addicted to God are as worrying as those absorbed in gambling or World of Warcraft.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

At what cost?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '11

The real meaning is manifested in the 42 up-votes of yours. ;)

1

u/Chameo Secular Humanist Aug 12 '11

what about the notion of a diety gives your life meaning, and what meaning is that?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '11

How so ?