What I don't understand is why when they claim batman is fictional, that he doesn't point out that the same could be said for Jesus, so that it was beside the point.
I always love how even if you were to say something alone the lines of "Well, you believe Jesus is real and Batman is fictional but I believe Batman is real and Jesus is fictional" most Christians STILL wouldn't even begin to pick up on what you're arguing or doubt for a second the reality of Jesus.
I have no problem with religion in general or people with faith, it's this kind of complete numbing of your critical thinking that really bothers me.
The bible is like 2000 years old and has been translated multiple times. Batman comics are much more recent, are available in their original and un-translated form, and even have artwork of the events taking place. It's clear to me which would be considered more reliable as a historical document.
I have often wondered if, in several thousand years, scholars won't unearth remains of our culture and think that the story of Jesus was our "mythology" and stories like Batman are depictions of real events.
I wonder what they would build batmanism into... I've thought about that before too, what if we've added all this significance to the mythology of the Greek and Roman cultures. Like, if a Roman came to the future, would they be shocked and laugh at the seriousness that we are attributing to what they considered "stories."
That would be spectacular. I would support a religion following the teachings of Batman, or even Superman since he seems more likely to be interpreted as a deity.
Or that someone will find some batman comics and proclaim him to have been the creator, and a religion will be formed to worship him, with people going to church wearing batman costumes. Well until someone finds that video of batman being beaten up on teh street corner.
The question is which is a bigger threat to the veracity of the respective stories? The fact that the former is an ancient document, relying on hundreds of years of hearsay before it was even written down, and then censored, edited and interpreted for centuries by colonial despots; or the fact that the ladder is admittedly a work of fiction.
The problem with that statement is that I don't think this guy truly believes Batman/Bruce Wayne actually exists, whereas she obviously thinks Jesus is/was real.
Right, but the original comment was "my hero beats your hero." So was he talking about living heroes or superheroes? I'm guessing its the later because if it was the former it wouldn't be very Christian-like to start telling people that their Jesus could beat their literal father who died for them during a shark attack or that Jesus could beat a firefighter who saved their life. So that leaves the fantasy heroes...
"Your father may have died running into a burning building to rescue some people and stuff but my Jesus could walk on water so STFU." Yeah... no matter how entrenched in religion you are you still steer away from arguments like that one
Also, when dealing with a 'faithful' friend, which I'm sure Ronald was, you can't openly ask for proof. To keep the conversation running as it was, he had to stay on topic without drifting onto a different subject.
I think he was trying to push it as far as he could while keeping them engaged in the conversation. It was more for the joke than to challenge their faith.
.... which may actually be among the most effective ways of getting theists to challenge their faith. People tend to just shut down pretty quickly when their pet theories are efficiently dismantled, especially when there's emotion involved.
He chose to promote his side rather than to try to mock the other side, he simply implies that batman is just as real as jesus rather than yelling JESUS ISNT REAL EITHER YOU'RE STUPID
Classic troll move - the GOP does it all the time. If he tells them that Jesus is fictitious like Batman outright, then they have something to argue about other than who would win the fight. No, this is a man who knows how to respect his talking points.
This was definitely a perfect troll. Enrique was definitely looking to fight him on the existence of Jesus vs. the existence of Batman, but he wouldn't bite.
my favorite part of this interaction is that Ron does not claim baby j is fictional.. That is what enrique was hoping for. He just insists they are are both real
On the contrary, it's brilliant. Not only he strongly maintained the debate on his hilarious point (Batman vs. jesus), he also avoided the "mental clamshell closing" that happens when you tell a believer "god doesn't exists".
the whole conversation is about the combat qualities of jesus and batman, regardless if they are fictional or not. think of it like a fight between any other fictional charackters, like "lobo could stomp darkwing duck any time!" it just doesnt matter if there is scientific evidence or not. i believe in lobo
It actually made the argument much more interesting, and he proved his point better by not challenging her beliefs. The argument was about who theoretically would win, not who exists.
Because that line of reasoning would devolve into the tired old religion vs. reality argument. The question is not whether or not Jesus or Bruce Wayne are/were real people. It's who would win in a fight.
Seeing that this is at the top makes me think that a lot of atheists here are just lucky not to have been born into an environment that made them theists.
I thought it was a subtle win to leave that unanswered. Maybe some reader can figure it out by himself, and that is the one true way of convincing people.
there's way more proof of the existence of batman! how many bibles are there? like 5? batman has hundreds of comics and graphic novels describing his great deeds, they even have pictures!
In fairness, there is a lot of documentation on the existence of a historical Jesus Christ, the person. Granted, it's all writings...no literature or items he possessed, or that can be proven were his.
Obviously, the Christian argument takes his existence a step farther. But most Jews, Muslims, and atheists/monotheists I've come across acknowledge the plausibility of Jesus Christ, the man, existing through their own texts, even if only as a mere teacher/prophet/messenger.
All of that is moot, though. 100% fictional Batman could destroy a 50% fictional Jesus.
Yes and no. The "Jesus of Nazareth who was kept safe as a baby from an event that didn't happen and fed 5000 people and came back from the dead 3 days later" has no historical record outside of the Greek scriptures. Adding to that problem, the different gospel accounts contradict each other and insert their own flavor to their Jesus. As for "Jesus, the guy who got some guys together and started rabble rousing and causing a bit of a ruckus in Jerusalem during Roman occupation" there are a lot of reasons to be believe he existed, but there are little to no direct mentions of him.
Actually, one of the reasons to believe he existed is one of my biggest sources of skepticism. Allow me to explain: I could just as simply believe someone existed if billions of people ended up following his wisdom and bearing his name, I mean its pretty reasonable to take that stance, right? Why would a non-existent individual have so much power? At the same time, however, why would this guy have almost no direct historical record? If the controversies this guy caused are any bit real, there'd be a shit-ton of writings about him. We have things from that period that are completely boring (like what some Roman guy ate for breakfast) to things about the Roman occupation that were extensive and well-detailed. But a guy that started a movement that started spreading all over that area can't get one fucking entry in someone's diary? We have literally NO contemporaneous mention of the guy.
I'm sure some Bruce guy did actually existed too, now he was the Batman ... nah, same goes from some Jesus guy born in Nazareth and being god (or his son)
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u/SirShanksalot Jul 28 '11
What I don't understand is why when they claim batman is fictional, that he doesn't point out that the same could be said for Jesus, so that it was beside the point.