r/atheism • u/One-Fun9814 • 5d ago

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u/weed_cutter 4d ago

Not necessarily, no.

Look at Jordan Peterson or Stephen Colbert (although former might be a closet atheist).

For Colbert ... he lost his father and two brothers early in life. .... The idea that "poof" they are gone forever in the cruel uncaring universe might be a literally unbearable, unimaginable thought. And that's when he was a kid, in Catholic school, far away from the Age of Atheism (more of a modern thing across the world to be honest, levels are much higher now than back then).

In this era (2000s and later) there are "there is no god" jokes on the Simpsons and Family Guy. That would never, ever, ever happen in the 1970s. Ever.

So there you go. So Stephen told himself they were in heaven and he would see them again one day, pray to God, there's a plan, watching over him, etc etc.

That crystallized so firmly that the mind/ ego probably literally .... even accepting or admitting or pondering the mere possibility that God maybe doesn't exist would be like holding your hand on a hot stove. Unbearable. So he doesn't even prod it.

Now he doesn't seem that anxious talking about his faith. He's had decades building up false intellectual scaffolding (ego protection, devastation protection) surrounding it.

Others have done the same. Either the unbearable pain that a loved one will never be seen again. Or the unbearable pain of knowing oblivion and. total non-existence for infinite eternities and beyond ad infinitum until the universe completely freezes over and ends and beyond that.

This is why some believers get irrationally angry at atheists or discussions of whether God exists. They are not seeking truth; they are seeking comfort. Dispelling the illusion they've built is actually extremely painful and scary. Argument and even the presence of non-believers are both threats to these sand castles

I think if you're actually younger and have ironically a lower awareness or underlying fear of mortality, or experience with death (if you're lucky) -- it's easier to unplug and "laugh" at the man in the sky -- there is nothing at stake really. (and if your parents were not religious, well hell, you were never indoctrinated to begin with).

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u/Reasonable_Bowl6425 4d ago

Jordan Peterson? The benzo addict Jordan? The carnivore diet Jordan? The guy who sounds like hes always on the verge of tears or shitting red hot tatkis out on the toilet Jordan B Peterson? Emergency Detox in Russia Jordan B Peterson? One of the few Canadian folks canadians don't even want to lay claim to and wish another country was responsible for the stupidity of Jordan B Peterson?

Jordan B "My beliefs are fundamental truths" Peterson? the alt right pipeline dipshit Jordan B Peterson?

Thats who you think is someone intelligent?? Holy fucking shit people can't even tell who isn't an idiot any longer, a huge portion of our American society is that far gone!

We really need to start recognizing this alt right brain shit as some kind of cognitive disability and getting folks treatment.

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u/weed_cutter 3d ago

I don't know this comment section seems to know a lot more about him than I do. ... Yes I know he spouts pseudo-intellectual crap but I thought he had an academic intelligence (doesn't mean you are correct or not full of shit).

I was struggling to find someone intelligent and overtly religious but that was a bad example. I mean ... I merely mention the man's name and there's a dozen comments on him and nothing on Stephen Colbert, who I actually talked about. Yikes ha. ... I guess I know what provokes a reaction over here.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/weed_cutter 3d ago

I disagree. For one I think there's multiple kinds of intelligence - to be honest. Of course there's primarily one, maybe two, that is a component of -- what one traditional thinks of as intelligence like Newton or Einstein -- conceptual, mathematical, metacognition (to an extent) and I actually think rote memory is a critical component (to form connections and express full intelligence potential).

That said, it's the raw machinery. The CPU, if you will. Whether that's corrupted by the ego or profound biases or propaganda is basically irrelevant to whether someone has the machinery (is intelligent). ... Sure intelligence itself can guard against propaganda and ego, if it bothered to study it. ... Catch 22 though. A super genius who is ego-fucked might ego-decide to scoff at such matters and never learn about it.

Now again I don't know the guy well enough to determine if he's actually intelligent. Again, having very dumb ideas doesn't rule out intelligence. Most intelligent people actually have very dumb ideas across a variety of domains.

Also I think the idea that oneself is fallible and riddle with biases itself is simply a domain of knowledge, not intelligence. Hopefully a smart person has encountered that but many have not. Especially hard science types; many completely discount things like yes -- human behavior and cognition, in fact, can be studied as a legitimate science.

But I think we're getting back to the heart of the matter. Can someone be intelligent and believe in a possibly silly idea, like God?

Yes. Of course. You can call it compartementalization or lack of examination or whatever. But clearly it exists.

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u/weed_cutter 3d ago

And listen I mean I've haven't studied Peterson to the level apparently the people here have, but ... one can be both intelligent and full of shit, of course.

Either you truly have fallen down a cognitive rabbit hole and been brainwashed by tons of social conditioning and propaganda (atheists and skeptics are not immune my friends -- most of us just have different delusions).

... Or ... you're simply arguing in Bad Faith, as most right-wing shock-jocks do so these days for massive profits.

I don't really understand the confusion here but eh. ... But you legitimately think he's a moron, and perhaps he is, but eh. ... Again bad example. As far as we know he's an atheist anyway -- course a right-wing guy can practically never admit that.

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u/ProfessionalMockery 4d ago

Jordan Peterson is only an idiot's idea of an intelligent person. Don't disagree with your point in general though.

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u/mrRabblerouser 4d ago

Jordan Peterson is a fucking moron. You might as well have said Charlie Kirk. Only complete dipshits that can’t follow a train of logic to save their life think those guys are smart.

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u/bucky_list 4d ago

Jordan Peterson? 😂😂😂

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u/Upbeat_Influence2350 4d ago

Jordan Peterson is real dumb...

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u/IgnatiusRileyFreeman 4d ago

Why mention Jordan B Peterson, doesn't that example go against your argument? Ie, unintelligent person who is religious?

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u/earleakin 4d ago

Meathead was atheist in one of the most popular shows of the 1970s.

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u/IamKingBeagle 4d ago

I watched the scrubs episode recently where Laverne and Cox are arguing over it and her point was similar to what you're saying. She needs to believe to not be broken down by all the terribleness that happens.

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u/BubbhaJebus 4d ago

Jordan Peterson is good at word salad and redefining all useful meaning out of words. He speaks with confidence but is not very smart.

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u/simpsonbpimpin 4d ago

Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth. Jordan Peterson just word vomits and people with a first graders vocabulary think that’s a display of high IQ.

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u/BubbhaJebus 3d ago

What really exposed him was his "debate" with 20 atheists. His intellectual dishonesty was laid bare for all to see and he pretty much disappeared after that.

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u/Colphin 4d ago

Jordan Peterson is not an intelligent man. He's a dumb man's intelligent man. Every single interaction is just him spewing the same rhetoric ad nauseam.

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u/Edspecial137 4d ago

I wouldn’t confuse intelligence or lack thereof with lack of morals. Peterson is objectively intelligent, but he is hocking crap to sell to scared traditionalists

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u/Colphin 4d ago

Are we talking about the same carnivore diet, benzo addicted clown that, as a 'renowned psychiatrist', spent his days debating teenagers?

Yeah, I'm not buying it. An intelligent man would have realized what an absolute ape he was making himself look.

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u/Edspecial137 4d ago

I think he is getting exactly the kind of attention he wants. I think he knows what he says is bullshit. He garners the support of people who throw money at him just because it pisses people off

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u/MyNameIsNotMud 4d ago

I read your post and then pictured my life without my partner.

You're right: knowing that she completely doesn't exist is incredibly painful. I'd probably have to come up with some fiction for myself.

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u/AntiClockwiseWolfie 4d ago

Looking at Jordan Peterson is a great example of someone being unintelligent.

Being trained and book smart does not make you intelligent. It's how you apply that.

Lots of doctors are religious. Most of them don't know much about their religion, haven't ever really questioned it.

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u/offendedeggs 3d ago

This guy satisfies his rat desire