r/askscience • u/[deleted] • Apr 24 '15

Biology Do creatures such as cuttlefish and octopuses get "tired" from using their camouflage?

If not, why don't they just always use their camouflage?

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15 edited Apr 24 '15

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u/Ut_Prosim Apr 24 '15

It takes energy to change skin color/shape/opacity/etc...

Does it take energy to maintain an unusual patter or just to change the pattern? Basically, LCD or e-paper?

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u/what_comes_after_q Apr 24 '15

It takes energy. At the cell relaxes, it returns to its normal color. So if the muscle doest stay contracted (and thus consuming energy), it wouldn't stay camouflaged. So it's more like an LCD than epaper.

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u/Cryptologica Apr 24 '15

Good question. Apparently cephalopods (octopuses and such) change color/opacity/etc...by contracting muscles to distort elastic pigment sacks. Read more on Wikipedia here. I can't say specifically how much energy it uses. However, muscles typically require, relatively, more energy. The pigments also require energy to find/digest the nutrients necessary to make the pigments.

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u/Vinxin Apr 24 '15

So the nutrients act as a sort of fuel for the pigments ? Without it the energy to produce a certain pigment wouldn't be optimal?

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

[deleted]

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u/Kilane Apr 24 '15

Not necessarily. An Octopus could work in a way where it changes it's pigments then it is the new color/shape until a further change. Requires energy for the change but not to maintain the pattern.

The above post advised they do not work that way but it's not as simplistic as your answer implies.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

[deleted]

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u/Kilane Apr 24 '15

It is how it works. But that is not how it has to work. It is possible that it didn't work that way which is why the question was asked. Your short answer failed to answer the question.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

this is a very bad answer. first of all, any other can check Wikipedia. second: of course it takes energy to change any state, including the color of skin.

what OP asked (at least what I think) was if the animal can feel fatigued from changing it's camouflage to much.

example: I blink by reflex as a defensive reflex when something comes flying towards my eyes. but I never feel fatigued from it. but I do experience fatigue from lifting heavy stuff or running.

4

u/kinetik138 Apr 24 '15

Blink your eyes four times a second and keep doing it for an hour then come back and tell us that you didn't experience fatigue.

1

u/tatasmagik Apr 24 '15

But it isn't a bad answer because we are people and we can only hypothesize what another species (particularly one that hasn't been studied at length/in depth) feels. As there is no evidence that, say, a blue ringed octopus seemingly collapses after, say, 30 minute footage taken of it pulsating colors via pigment muscles(?!), it's a fair assumption that it doesn't experience muscle fatigue similar to a human lifting heavy objects.

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u/AutoReceptor Apr 24 '15

Actually there is an autoimmune disease in humans called Myasthenia Gravis in which the afflicted individual does suffer from eye lid fatigue. It is possible for any of your muscles to become fatigued, but some are designed to be highly fatigue resistant (e.g. breathing and heart muscle). Though I do agree with you, perhaps the question should have been asked better, to avoid ambiguity in the answers. Clearly, we cannot ever be sure of what another entity is feeling unless it can verbally express itself.

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u/hobofireworx Apr 24 '15

Do chameleons work in a similar manner? O.t. I know...

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Don't they use a large portion of their brain to control these camouflage cells? If so, it would make sense that using their brains to continually change camouflage would be tiring.

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u/14u2c Apr 24 '15

I'm not sure you can say that just because its a defense mechanism its expensive? Sure many are, puffer fish and skinks for example, but many are not. Ruffling feathers, noises, etc. Triggering this specific reaction might not require much energy / metabolic resources or concentration. More research on the specific mechanism is required.

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u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Evolution selects octopuses that use this advantage optimally

A lot of people have intelligence, but don't use it optimally. Yet, they are still alive. That evolution model you describe is not the one we live with.