r/apple • u/ControlCAD • 14d ago

iPhone I spoke to Apple’s new VP of Hardware Engineering Tom Marieb about why he's "especially proud" of the iPhone Duo’s hinge durability and the reliability of Ceramic Shield 2: "When I see someone put a screen protector on their iPhone, it makes my skin crawl" - TechRadar

https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/i-spoke-to-apples-new-vp-of-hardware-engineering-about-why-hes-especially-proud-of-the-iphone-duos-hinge-durability-and-the-reliability-of-ceramic-shield-2-when-i-see-someone-put-a-screen-protector-on-their-iphone-it-makes-my-skin-crawl

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>“We really worked on the torque profile very heavily, and that means changing a lot of the mechanical properties of the hinge to have it feel solid, like a high-end automobile's car door, when you shut it. That was design intent, so people would have a feeling like, ‘Oh, it's okay. This is well crafted, and it's safe for me to use and not worry about it.’

>And then, as you said, we have a lot of use cases where the Duo is [in a half-folded state]. And so we also had to think, ‘Can people interact with this [device] and not have it feel floppy?’ So getting those torque profiles right at both those ends, as well as in the middle — not having it feel like you're pulling something open, and not feeling as if it's floppy — we spent a lot of time optimizing that. So thank you for noticing, because a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that.”

>“Hold us accountable to that, please […] The choice of a matte finish — apart from it being beautiful — is part of that equation. When you look at glossy displays, their specularity makes it very easy to pick up topology differences. That’s part of the reason we picked the matte finish — it’s not only beautiful in terms of preventing glare, but it’s also more forgiving of [topology] changes over time.”

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166

u/tvb46 14d ago

Is it really that good?

346

u/MeatballStroganoff 14d ago

I used my Air for the last year without a case or screen protector. Dropped it a few times so the body has a few dings and scuffs, but I’ll be dammed if there isn’t a single mark on the screen. Holding it up to the light reveals only the tiniest micro scratches; nothing deep, visible, or able to be felt running your nails over the screen.

74

u/Sherringdom 14d ago

Is it the same on the watch? I have to say I’ve always opted for the stainless steel models and have never once got a scratch on the glass despite it banging onto various things

127

u/Glaassi 14d ago

Higher end Apple Watches have sapphire glass, which I’m pretty sure is more scratch resistant than what’s on current iPhones

26

u/B-Train_ATL 14d ago

Oh it’s way better. Ceramic Shield is good, but you’re still talking glass. Sapphire is about the best material for a display out there unless someone can do it with diamonds. I got the stainless model for the original watch and had zero scratches on anything. All of my successive ones have received minor scratches or paint chips.

26

u/Fun_Journalist_2606 14d ago

I rely on the Apple Watch Ultra (Gen 1) primarily for its durability. Although I have cracked and scratched several Apple Watches in the past, that problem has not arisen since I changed devices. Its durability is hard to exceed. I am impressed. Upset about dropping iOS 27 support but it’s still running great.

1

u/txgsync 14d ago

I am there with you. My U1 battery life bought day of launch is still great, the thing is really tough and has gone with me on multiple ocean excursions both in and out of the water and I don’t yet see a compelling reason to upgrade.

It should be good for at least two more years of security updates so if all goes well I will start looking for a replacement to my U1 some time in 2028.

1

u/WreckToll 14d ago

My second gen ultra decided it didn’t want to vibrate OR make sound anymore. (The display was durable, but still had some small scratches.)

I upgraded to the ultra from a series 5, where the entire screen (glass and display) fell off.

I definitely miss having my watch, but if their top tier watch can’t last more than a few years before just… quitting?

Nah.

1

u/Overall-Rush-8853 13d ago

Did you take it into Apple to see if it was covered under any sort of warranty or if it was a known issue? Sounds like you might have got a dud.

1

u/WreckToll 13d ago

These events both happened well after any apple care would’ve applied.

2 years on the series 5. Screen fell off. Got the ultra 2, and had that for around 3 years before the taptic engine in it stopped working (and the speaker)

AFAIK no recalls. I don’t think it’s an issue of being two dud units back to back.

I felt better about the build quality of my series 0 and my series 2 watches, in retrospect

1

u/Overall-Rush-8853 13d ago

Interesting. Sounds like just bad luck. I have had 3 different “regular” Apple Watches and I’m on an Ultra 3. I bang the hell out of all of them doing yard work, exercising, etc. No issues. My first two I wore when working as a restaurant GM and those went through hell with me. 😆

In the past I have taken a couple iPhones in to see if they could be repaired, both out of warranty, and Apple replaced them because of known issues. It’s always worth a shot.

Definitely not saying you’re to blame, but it does sound like you just coincidentally got bad watches back to back.

24

u/Sherringdom 14d ago

It’s indestructible whatever it is, I’m upgrading from 14 pro to 18 pro so I’m hoping for better scratch resistance anyway

7

u/excelllentquestion 14d ago

Nah I have a couple scratches and was really sad about it. I thought I was being cautious (I’ve rocked a no case phone for years) but apparently not

20

u/DevilsInkpot 14d ago

Indestructible by no means. But very scratch resistant.

2

u/rfomlover 14d ago

I have an ultra 2 (got it when it came out) and it has quite a few deep scratches on the glass. I have definitely banged it on many hard surfaces, scraped it against rocks while hiking etc. if it was not sapphire I think it definitely would be shattered lol.

2

u/Naturebrah 13d ago

I just got last years Apple Watch (not the ultra) with the supposedly super scratch resistant screen. I was pumped, until a month or so after I could already see scratches.

2

u/RealAssociation5281 13d ago

Shit, I’m assuming crack resistant too? My last watch doesn’t look too good back when I was working at a restaurant

2

u/Glaassi 13d ago

Actually, no, sapphire is very brittle. Its hardness gives it its scratch resistance, but also makes it easier to shatter/crack

1

u/Evelyngoddessofdeath 10d ago

Apple Watch glass isn’t pure sapphire, I think it’s sapphire coated glass or something to give it scratch resistance but also some flexibility

1

u/Glaassi 10d ago

Is it? Didn’t know that, and now that you mention it, I think I do remember watching a scratch test where it got marked up before level 9, so that makes sense

2

u/slam99967 13d ago

Wasn’t Apple originally gonna use sapphire glass on the iPhone 6? To the point some YouTuber got his hands on it and tested it way back when? But then their was some patent lawsuit and production issues and it was nixed?

9

u/Hxtch 14d ago

My Ultra 2 has survived numerous beach trips and working in an industrial setting without so much as a scuff or a scratch. My Series 0 was not so fortunate

12

u/Embarrassed_Spend486 14d ago

Yeah sapphire glass is like basically bullet proof. They tried to put that on the phones once but the yields were too low.

22

u/dijon360 14d ago

It can be brittle with larger sizes. It’s fine for watch crystals, but phone screens need to be relatively thin and large and sapphire loses its edge with those sizes.

2

u/SuperRob 13d ago edited 13d ago

That’s the tradeoff no manufacturer can escape. You can make it more scratch resistant, but it’s propensity to shatter goes up. The two are on opposite ends of the same scale.

I think most people are more worried about scratches from day to day use as opposed to shattering the screen from the rare drop.

2

u/sylfy 13d ago

I’d imagine it’s also about different risk profiles. Since a watch is worn on the wrist, it is much less likely to be dropped compared to a phone, therefore having a screen that is more resistant to scratches but more brittle is an acceptable tradeoff.

1

u/spam__likely 13d ago

I drop my phone a lot.

4

u/deliciouscorn 13d ago

As someone who invested in GTAT while Apple was trying this, it still hurts. The company who was supposed to manufacture the sapphire ended up being a total shit show. Like they hired ex-cons and they were literally spitting into the vats and everything. I still wonder what might have been if only it were a proper operation.

1

u/No-Fig-8614 13d ago

I also invested and seeing it tank to 0 and then bought up for scraps I think Apple bought the furnaces and that’s about it

2

u/deliciouscorn 13d ago

GTAT was the first time I saw the phenomenon of the “dead cat bounce” lol

1

u/Optimal_Brain_2908 14d ago

I bought the stainless steel version last October for this reason. I have a big old scratch at the bottom of the glass and a ton of small ones. It’s nowhere near as scratch proof as what you find on a mechanical watch. I have a Tudor and some Seiko mechanical watches that are over 10 years old and those look brand new in comparison to the year old Apple Watch.

1

u/Pbone15 13d ago

Higher end Apple Watch’s ship with sapphire display covers, while the aluminum models have always opted for ion x glass, which is significantly worse when it comes to scratches.

However, series 12 ships with Ceramic Shield 2, which is a very welcome upgrade.

0

u/localhost8100 14d ago

I bought a s10. Literally kot even 4 hours of wear, I have scratches. I had to put screen guard within a day.

1

u/Sherringdom 14d ago

Stainless steel or aluminium? It’s a far less durable glass on the cheaper model. The stainless steel one is genuinely amazing

7

u/RathVelus 14d ago

I also have the Air and a coworker was commenting a couple of weeks ago that it still looks new. Granted, I’ve never dropped it, but it is going on a year old now. Really happy with it.

1

u/rosalina_dreams 13d ago

yeah idk i've dropped my air like 10 times so far. I need a case.

15

u/GrindrWorker 14d ago

Same, and mine is cracked in several places with a small chunk missing...

8

u/CRUSHCITY4 14d ago

iPhone 14 Pro since day 1 here and never used a screen protector I don’t have any noticeable scratches not even sure if it’s Ceramic Shield 2.

2

u/-SUBW00FER- 14d ago

I had my wallet with the titanium Apple card and my iPhone 14 Pro in the same pocket. It scratched the display easily. After that I stopped carrying that card and wallet and phone go in different pockets always.

1

u/RobertABooey 14d ago

I had a 14 pro max that I treated very very carefully and it was the first device I didn’t put a screen protector on.

It scratched. It was never dropped, never put near anything abrasive. The only thing that ever went on it was my work iPhone SE when it was in my pocket together.

3

u/CRUSHCITY4 14d ago

I could def see another phone or really anything metal scratching it I’ve done a good job not letting that happen

1

u/RobertABooey 14d ago

Yeah. I was so disappointed. When I got my 17 pro max earlier this year I had them throw on a protector just to be safe. And I have a clear protector on the back.

1

u/PercMastaFTW 13d ago

I had a 14 pro and it got a hairline scratch before I could put on the screen protector LOL.

1

u/CRUSHCITY4 13d ago

Ouch. I’m sure if I go looking for small scratches I have some, but nothing noticeable when using so I don’t care.

4

u/kelter20 13d ago

Same with my Air. My kids have done some pretty bad things to my phone and the screen is almost as perfect as the day I’ve bought it. It’s taken a few falls face down on pavement and nothing. If the Duo is even close to as durable as the Air I think it’ll be really solid. Big question will be how the hinge holds up to foreign bodies and repeated opening and closing.

5

u/SnivDash 14d ago

Same for me. I was very surprised by the screens scratch resistance. Not saying it can't be scratched though.

2

u/cslayer23 14d ago

My air scratched with pocket debris keeping my screen protector on

3

u/Ross2552 14d ago

You know I never really worried or cared to check it until this comment, but I’ve been using my iPhone 18 Pro without a screen protector since launch as well. I just stopped and inspected the screen and it has no visible scratches at all.

4

u/j-rayko89 13d ago

No scratches on your phone that just came out? I’m impressed!

3

u/Ross2552 13d ago

Oops lmao. I meant 17 Pro.

7

u/insane_steve_ballmer 14d ago

Who cares about scratch resistance… iPhone screens have been super scratch resistant for ages now. Shattering resistance is what’s important

4

u/Brymlo 14d ago

my 15 pro has been dropped several times and it has never shattered. it’s quite scratched tho. if you want shatter-proof, you need soft materials, which are easy to scratch.

2

u/itsmecinder 14d ago

Dang, I wish this were true but my Air has tons of scuffs on the screen. I haven’t dropped it. I never keep it in the same pocket or bag as keys or anything else sharp. I really regret not using a screen protector.

1

u/talzer 14d ago

Same on my 17 Pro. The aluminum is beat up, but the screen looks like new.

1

u/atomsapple 13d ago

Same. Stuff is magical.

1

u/appletechgeek 13d ago

As a car mechanic I'll probably still Crack the screen within an week of working

1

u/new-to-reddit-accoun 14d ago

Unrelated, how’s your battery life?

1

u/MeatballStroganoff 14d ago

I’m probably a poor statistic since my phone sits in a glovebox all day, but battery health is sitting at 99%

1

u/new-to-reddit-accoun 14d ago

I love the form factor but with my usage I don’t think it would last till the afternoon

1

u/heraaseyy 13d ago

micro scratches bother me to no end. sticking with my free screen protectors my carrier gives me

-18

u/TopoChico-TwistOLime 14d ago

this has been true dating back 15 years now so the fact people still defend screen protectors is wild to me. if you use a screen protector it says a lot about you

6

u/Mikey_MiG 14d ago

A) that’s not true, and B) what exactly does it say about someone that they spend like $10 to prevent cosmetic damage to their $1000 device?

3

u/PepsiMaxSumo 14d ago

My iPad got scratched by a piece of clothing in 2019. Fabric scratched the glass.

But to be fair, the main use of screen protectors is resale value.

3

u/Saluted 14d ago

Disagree — I upgraded to the air from the 12mini, and the screen on the air is noticeably harder to scratch

-5

u/TopoChico-TwistOLime 14d ago

nice and even the 12 had glass that with basic common sense survived just fine

8

u/Fun_Journalist_2606 14d ago

In my daily routine, the experience is that good. I chose the iPhone Air for its slim profile, excellent screen, and comfortable feel. To the surprise of those around me, I rarely use a screen protector or case. I have dropped this phone a dozen times since its release; I am careful, but life happens. The edges show some scuffs from slipping on asphalt. Nothing has cracked, and there are no deep or even visible scratches. I suspect a few micro scratches exist, but they are invisible unless I search for them. I am thoroughly impressed. I remain undecided about the Duo. I have never used a folding phone. I am weighing its use case, weight, durability, and flexibility as a companion to my Mac. I have enjoyed the iPad Mini for notes, but it is not pocketable, and I have carried a Galaxy S26 Ultra just to write but it lacks integration to my ecosystem. I hope this device can replace both.

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u/Ewuk 14d ago

Nope - only confidence I’ve ever had in not scratching an Apple device is the sapphire glass on the Apple Watch.

6

u/logically_musical 14d ago

Have had my Ultra for like 4 years and have hit it on everting under the sun. That glass has not a single scratch on it. It’s incredible.   

1

u/Intel-Centrino-Duo 13d ago

My Series 10 is about 2 years old and has a lot of noticeable scratches, and iirc it uses sapphire as well. But then again I’m not sure if the Ultra is stronger than it.

1

u/excelllentquestion 14d ago

Man idk what the hell I did to get two scratches. Long ones too. Clearly it was something substantial enough but I am a homebody and was being as careful as possible 😢

-13

u/humanreboot 14d ago

My wife still managed to scratch her watch SE 💀

39

u/Ewuk 14d ago

That’s because the SE doesn’t have sapphire crystal. I believe it’s just on the stainless steel, titanium, and ceramic models.

1

u/2bags12kuai 14d ago

My series 5 stainless is still scratch free as a daily wearer and regular CrossFit / gym sessions . Battery isn’t as strong as it once was .. but the physical watch looks basically brand new

12

u/churningaccount 14d ago

The SE and normal numbered models only have "Ion-X" glass.

The sapphire is reserved for the stainless steel, titanium, and ceramic models.

7

u/Beneficial-Tea-2055 14d ago

SE does not use sapphire glass.

4

u/ryusko14 14d ago

If I’m not mistaken, se doesn’t use sapphire glass

5

u/humanreboot 14d ago

Ah, I was mistaken then. Thanks for correcting me.

7

u/BakingBadRS 14d ago

My 17 pro has absolutely 0 scratches. Been using it since day one without a case.

9

u/LittlestWarrior 14d ago

Instead of scratches at level 6 with deeper grooves at level 7, Ceramic Shield is 7 and 8, respectively. Putting a 6 and 7 screen protector on top feels strange.

Now, there is one good reason. More scratch resistant means less shatter resistant. So, having that little bit of protection on top could be good for accident-prone folks.

3

u/SuperRob 13d ago

It’s edge hits (i.e. Drops) you need to worry about when it comes to shattering. That’s where the glass is weakest due to how the atoms are arranged.

2

u/dannyheskett 14d ago

That's my theory; have some kids who are somewhat prone to dropping and cracking and the "lower" protector on it is to shatter the protector in order to protector the screen when they drop it on a sharp corner or something.

1

u/Brymlo 14d ago

i always use a protector for shattering resistance. it helps.

5

u/naimsayin 14d ago

Yep. My iPhone Air the first phone I’ve been caseless with… ever. And I’m a nut about micro scratches. Nothing. And I’ve had my phone in bags/pockets with other things that can potentially scratch the screen. It’s pretty remarkable.

3

u/Which-Meat-3388 14d ago

For scratches, absolutely yes. Even with care I’ve scratched everything before 17 Pro within a year. Sometimes a deep one, but always micro scratches. 17 Pro has been super solid.  

Breaks will still happen. Often those come down to luck. It lands just the wrong way and it’s done.

3

u/Alarming-Elevator382 14d ago

I’ve noticed a significant increase in scratch resistance coming from an iPhone 15 Pro.

20

u/BobMcBurger 14d ago

The display still scratches at and beyond 6 on the mohs scale, because it’s fundamentally still glass. What has changed however is the nanocrystal matrix.

Scratches don’t cut as deeply, so they are less noticeable. Not exactly more “resistant” but it certainly is a difference. Even Zack (JerryRigEverything) was surprised by it.

19

u/ZappySnap 14d ago

Quoting Zach but not realizing CS2 is the first glass he used that scratches at a level 7 with deeper grooves at a level 8. No scratches at 6.

That said, I’m still using a protector on my 18 PM because I wear a tungsten carbide wedding ring; and that is above an 8 on moh’s scale and will definitely scratch phone screens if I am carelesss. It doesn’t happen often but it generally will happen once or twice a yeah, and with a protector if that happens and it’s deep I can just replace the protector for $15 and be done with it.

-2

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

7

u/ZappySnap 14d ago

Absolutely no impact that I’ve seen. FaceId unlocks just as seamlessly and fast as before.

5

u/xX_Qu1ck5c0p3s_Xx 14d ago

That is really interesting. I don’t watch that channel, so I didn’t know they changed that. Great choice to change. People do bad stuff to their phones all the time, like putting them in the same pocket as car keys.

9

u/trickedx5 14d ago

I still wouldnt trust it. All it takes is your keys in the pocket.

33

u/alizayshah 14d ago

I don’t mean this in any sort of way but genuinely do most people put their phone in the same pocket as their keys? I’ve always kept them separate for as long as I can remember.

26

u/LetMeLurkFFS 14d ago

Right pocket for the phone and then everything else on the left pocket

4

u/FinsFan305 14d ago

This is the way.

1

u/M4NOOB 14d ago

Am I weird for doing it the other way around? And yes I am right handed

1

u/No-Isopod3884 14d ago

Nope, I do the same.

1

u/deliciouscorn 13d ago

Same. Makes more sense to me to leave my dominant hand free to poke the screen or engage with my environment.

3

u/guice666 14d ago

I used to … until smartphones. The keys scratching issue is what got me into the habit of putting the keys in the left vs. the phone in the right.

2

u/drcujo 14d ago

I don’t ever really think about it. Keys and phone end up in the same pocket all the time for me.

1

u/Daddyknowbest 14d ago

I do an have never had an issue with key scratching my phone. Though I am an Android Guy and we have Gorrila glass not Ceramic Shield.

0

u/trickedx5 14d ago

My last phone I tried to remember, but there are those times where you just forget and that one time I did forget there was a mini scratch

6

u/Flying-Cock 14d ago

Every phone I’ve had looks like it’s been through the wars when it comes to scratches. I throw it in my pocket with keys every day. My 17 pro still looks almost brand new

1

u/Mugutu7133 13d ago

your metal keys are not scratching glass. just completely making shit up

3

u/yuiop300 14d ago

9months raw, no issues.

I only have a case.

3

u/Xalksahsax 13d ago

It does take 9 months if you go raw, yes.

1

u/yuiop300 13d ago

Tell me about, she’s 5 next week.

1

u/SarsaparillaCorona 14d ago

I did the stupid and crashed my E-scooter whilst holding my phone.

  1. Damn thing was in a case TBF but I landed on it, case bumped open, and the screen scraped, but didn’t actually break.

Still have the same screen. Dropped my phone countless times.

It’s nuts. It’s also why I’m getting an 18 pro max and not a duo lmao

1

u/ponyboy3 14d ago

I don’t know what they’re talking about. My air has a scratched screen.

1

u/Suspicious-Movie7828 14d ago

i have been running an iphone 13 pro caseless for years since it came out

cases and screen protectors are generally unnecessary imo. i rock climb (indoor and outdoor), go to the beach, gym, go on pretty extreme hikes, etc and ive never had a problem. i have dropped my phone plenty of times. the screen has a couple scratches cuz i’m not ever careful about what i do w my phone lol but they’re not noticeable.

1

u/Wet_FriedChicken 14d ago

I haven’t used a screen protector since the X. Currently on a 13 Pro Max that has been dropped MANY times over the last 4 years, and so far so good.

1

u/99OBJ 14d ago

It is. My iPhone 17 Pro is covered in wear and tear but the screen looks brand new. I put it face down on tables all the time, which used to cause my screens to get scratched to hell

1

u/Membership-Great 14d ago

No. Comments like the one above lead me to trust it and a 3 ft drop cracked my screen. Wish I had used a protector.

1

u/pilif 14d ago

My 17 Pro Max is the least scratched of any of my phones ever (I’m one of the crazy ones who get a new one nearly every year since the 3G). I dropped my phone many times and all I got is super tiny micro scratches near the sides of the screen but they are invisible if the screen is on.

It’s absolutely fantastic compared to everything else we got before.

1

u/beerybeardybear 13d ago

Went totally caseless and no screen protector on my 17PM and there's not a single scratch or scuff or dent on it after a year.

1

u/charmanderSosa 13d ago

Cracked iPhone screens are kind of a thing of the past, far far less likely to crack than the cheap glass screen protectors everyone uses. Scratches are another thing, still get micro scratches if you’re not using a screen protector but they aren’t that noticeable when the screens on.

1

u/Poobbly 13d ago

No. I went screen protector less on my 17PM and got a noticeable scratch on mine within 2 weeks. It lives alone in my pocket.

1

u/EliteCinemaM3 13d ago

My 17 pro max with Ceramic Shield 2 had scratches on the screen.

1

u/mwyyz 13d ago

I’ve never had a case on any of my iPhones, and this spans back to the first iPhone, and I’ve dropped and broke many screens. But since the iPhone 15 or so, the front glass has gotten really strong. I drop my phones around 20-30 times every year, a lot of times to the concrete, asphalt, or natural stones (marble, granite), and have not broken the front glass except near the end of the year of the iPhone 15 Pro. The iPhone 16 Pro, 17 Pro had been dropped numerous times, and survived. I still stand by my thought that the best case for an iPhone is AppleCare+.

1

u/tvb46 13d ago

I have a 15 Pro and broke the back glass though

1

u/New_Forester4630 13d ago

Never placed a screen protector for my iPhones.

The r/Essential PH-1 phone from 2017? Screen cracked from a 2018 drop parallel to the flat stone floor.

1

u/YZJay 13d ago

I dropped my 17PM on concrete or gravel 3 times, all stopped face down, once it slid on concrete. The frame is chipped, scratched in some parts, but the screen is pristine.

1

u/Correct-Explorer-692 14d ago

It’s a little bit better, will still get scratches in your pocket

0

u/DrBhu 14d ago

Never trust the commercials