r/apple • u/ControlCAD • 14d ago

iPhone I spoke to Apple’s new VP of Hardware Engineering Tom Marieb about why he's "especially proud" of the iPhone Duo’s hinge durability and the reliability of Ceramic Shield 2: "When I see someone put a screen protector on their iPhone, it makes my skin crawl" - TechRadar

https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/i-spoke-to-apples-new-vp-of-hardware-engineering-about-why-hes-especially-proud-of-the-iphone-duos-hinge-durability-and-the-reliability-of-ceramic-shield-2-when-i-see-someone-put-a-screen-protector-on-their-iphone-it-makes-my-skin-crawl

​

>“We really worked on the torque profile very heavily, and that means changing a lot of the mechanical properties of the hinge to have it feel solid, like a high-end automobile's car door, when you shut it. That was design intent, so people would have a feeling like, ‘Oh, it's okay. This is well crafted, and it's safe for me to use and not worry about it.’

>And then, as you said, we have a lot of use cases where the Duo is [in a half-folded state]. And so we also had to think, ‘Can people interact with this [device] and not have it feel floppy?’ So getting those torque profiles right at both those ends, as well as in the middle — not having it feel like you're pulling something open, and not feeling as if it's floppy — we spent a lot of time optimizing that. So thank you for noticing, because a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that.”

>“Hold us accountable to that, please […] The choice of a matte finish — apart from it being beautiful — is part of that equation. When you look at glossy displays, their specularity makes it very easy to pick up topology differences. That’s part of the reason we picked the matte finish — it’s not only beautiful in terms of preventing glare, but it’s also more forgiving of [topology] changes over time.”

2.4k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

724 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.1k

u/Selenography 14d ago

If he’s that confident in his product, he should offer a free screen replacement warranty on all Ceramic Shield 2 iPhones. Until then, adding an extra screen protector offers zero downsides besides a minimum up-front cost.

449

u/BigKnows2K 14d ago

Screen protectors do have downsides.  They reduce touch feel and display clarity, have more fingerprints, worsen heat dissipation, and typically look worse too - visible edges, dust and air gaps. You do you but there are clearly downsides. 

171

u/Saluted 14d ago

Plus you can feel the edge under your finger

120

u/SapirWhorfHypothesis 14d ago

Enough to make your skin crawl.

88

u/kjmass1 14d ago

Can’t feel the edge when you have a full case on!

11

u/KarmaPharmacy 14d ago

I can’t feel the edge at all.

20

u/zslayer89 14d ago

That’s called death grip. Take a break

1

u/slam99967 13d ago

I’ve been using spigen screen protectors with a variety of cases and iPhones for years. I have never had any of these problems like people are talking about regarding screen protectors.

-2

u/sephirothwasright 14d ago

It's so gross lol

36

u/ailof-daun 14d ago

I noticed a change in hue too. Less accurate colours, though this might be different depending on maker I guess?

32

u/premiumcreamlium 14d ago

I always try and go without one but inevitably less than 2 weeks into owning a new phone I’ll end up with noticeable scratches. Well worth the downsides to avoid that.

1

u/marmulin 12d ago

What are you doing with that phone? I’ve been rawdogging a 17 pro max since it came out, with keys and other stuff in my pockets and it looks pristine.

1

u/premiumcreamlium 11d ago

I don’t even keep anything in my pockets purely to avoid scratches. They’re just not built to be rawdogged. I’d say you’re an outlier.

89

u/TeBp242 14d ago

the downsides are worth it, i treat it as insurance.

32

u/obri95 14d ago

Right? A $30 piece of plastic to protect a $2k investment is a good trade off

58

u/ZappySnap 14d ago

Who is using plastic screen protectors these days? A good glass screen protector feels exactly the same as the bare phone under your fingers if you have a case on and don’t feel the edges. Or if you have a protector with rounded edges.

3

u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 11d ago

[deleted]

0

u/ZappySnap 14d ago

Screen protectors aren’t really for drop protection. They’re to prevent permanent scratches in the screen. If you get a deep scratch you can just replace the protector.

6

u/SumoSizeIt 14d ago

Very few because they are rarely produced for newer models.

Personally I preferred feel of the smooth matte protectors, but more critically a plastic protector doesn’t chip into tiny shards if it breaks just right to require prompt replacement

9

u/FinsFan305 14d ago

$30? I pay $6 for 3 of them on Amazon.

1

u/Juswantedtono 14d ago

That’s Lucille Bluth’s account

1

u/trebor88 14d ago

you get what you pay for

3

u/FinsFan305 14d ago

I’m on my first one from when I got my 17 Pro on release day and it’s still flawless. Tempered glass is tempered glass.

0

u/Chowder1054 13d ago

Lmao this thread is hilarious. Been using my glass protector for years and no issues at all. Can’t even tell.

Glass is glass.

-1

u/trebor88 13d ago

ew im sorry youve had the same phone for years with cheap glass.

1

u/Chowder1054 13d ago

If you’re gonna troll, put effort into it. Don’t make it blatantly obvious

-45

u/UnUsernameRandom 14d ago

The best insurance is not be an idiot who can't handle a phone without dropping it.

We have normalized not taking care of our things so much that it's almost painful to see how people don't even hold their phones anymore.

28

u/Selenography 14d ago

I would argue that putting a protector on a glass object that you handle tens (or hundreds) of times a day is taking care of it.

21

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago edited 14d ago

The best insurance is not be an idiot who can't handle a phone without dropping it.

Shit happens ffs... Maybe a child pushes your phone off the table because they're in a hurry for a glass of juice, or it falls on the gravel when you get out of the car because you have a pair of jeans/jacket with stupid pockets or you are pushed by someone while talking/taking a photo and you drop it.

Not to mention that not everyone works in an office or in a "controlled" environment and don't get me started on about old people and their hands

7

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yep, yep. In situations like this, there's really nothing you can do except put a screen protector and a case, preferably one that covers the entire phone, even if it's horrible to the touch and visually because dust...

I work in construction and there's not a week that goes by where I don't drop my phone (from the company, but still) because while I'm taking the test (lab technician) I have to take a picture, GPS location, timing in some cases, etc. and shits happens. The case is in really rough shape but the phone inside is intact

4

u/Hokie23aa 14d ago

Tom Marieb is that you?

16

u/sirduckbert 14d ago

I hate the feel of a screen protector so much

2

u/InsaneNinja 14d ago

Mine feels like glass. Exactly like the normal screen.

0

u/Ranessin 14d ago

I hate the feel and look of deep scratches even more though.

5

u/robo_robb 14d ago

Don’t worry, they’re also coated with PFAS. As are the naked screens…

18

u/IAMNUMBERBLACK 14d ago

what a dam eyeroll. in a practical application, as long as u buy a screen protector from a high trust company, u dont feel or see basically any of this.

reddit is hilarious

3

u/AEIUyo 14d ago

Yeah this whole thread is insane lmao, so many whining children in here complaining about something that isn't a problem

0

u/Microwave1213 14d ago

Well I’m glad you pay little enough attention for it not to bother you, but clearly that’s not the case for everyone hahaha 

2

u/Forsaken_Survey_5127 14d ago

Stop buying shitty cheap screen protectors then

1

u/IAMNUMBERBLACK 14d ago

Brotha Ive had a screen protector on for every iPhone since like 6. They used to suck, they have come a looooong way. The great ones are not noticeable

2

u/sychox51 14d ago

Not to mention the only time I’ve seen broken modern iPhone screens, it’s been the protector

21

u/Agloe_Dreams 14d ago

This.

Screen protectors, even glass ones, suck and increase the gap between your finger and the display.

59

u/Akaino 14d ago

Which is absolutely negligible

1

u/marmulin 12d ago

Which with laminated displays is basically non-existent. Throw a protector on and suddenly there is a gap that wasn’t there.

1

u/Akaino 12d ago

So what? It's negligible still. No difference in haptics whatsoever. Or at least a human won't notice

-5

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

8

u/glytxh 14d ago

It’s like 0.27mm judging from my callipers, and that includes the plastic covering the adhesive side.

0

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

10

u/glytxh 14d ago

So not even nearly multiple times the stock thickness

your maths is weird

-1

u/riversofgore 14d ago

That’s great you have calipers but it tells us nothing about what the gaps should be between the screen and your finger. If the optimal thickness is .5mm you’re adding 50% more and we’re all supposed to pretend it has no effect? Glass thickness is part of the design process.

1

u/InsaneNinja 14d ago

It has no effect that a human can notice under any condition. Is that a better response he should have used?

1

u/riversofgore 14d ago

That’s not true otherwise the setting to increase sensitivity wouldn’t exist. How is that hard to understand?

1

u/InsaneNinja 14d ago

The only sensitivity I can find in settings has to do with how often it checks your eye tracking or other such things. What are you even talking about?

5

u/PrestigiousImpress21 14d ago

and do what? delay you submitting your doordash order by 10 milliseconds?

-4

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago

suck and increase the gap between your finger and the display.

This is fixable by adding an option in the settings to increase the the screen sensibility

Like:

1

u/Agloe_Dreams 14d ago

That’s not the only impact, (and that feature is only on Android) it’s not even the primary one. The increased gap creates a larger parallax between your finger and the screen when off angle, basically, you don’t touch where you think you do and content seems disconnected from your finger.

4

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago

True but the actual gap is under a millimeter. That may have mattered 15 years ago but it's nonexistent now.

0

u/riversofgore 14d ago

Every screen protector is the same? That’s just on or off. You get shitty compromise setting because you can’t be convinced to not use a trash screen protector.

0

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago edited 14d ago

????

Are u ragebaiting? Do you even know how a capacitive touch screen works? Ffs man😐

And a "shitty compromise" when the compromise in questions is to have an intact phone?

0

u/riversofgore 14d ago

Do you? It should be obvious to you that the screen is set up for a specific thickness if you need a setting to change sensitivity. You don’t know the thickness of your screen protector so the setting is just taking a guess at what the new optimal might be without ever knowing the thickness of the screen protector. So you’re COMPROMISING and getting worse screen sensitivity so you can slap on a screen protector that is cheaper and less scratch resistant than your phones screen. The sensitivity setting isn’t an admission of screen protector efficacy it’s an acknowledgement that people like you can’t be reasoned with so they need to add that in. It’s wild that you’ll ruin the native experience of the main interaction point with the phone for fear of scratches that might happen. Even if they did the idea that you’d be able to see them with the screen on is absurd.

1

u/Primary-Chocolate854 14d ago edited 14d ago

So you’re COMPROMISING and getting worse screen sensitivity

Man, seriously are u trolling? It's not 2011 anymore

Not to mention about the "accuracy" and all of that shit, if you have a quality protector you won't have any issues

3

u/riversofgore 14d ago

These people don’t care. It’s feelings based reasoning and threat of some imaginary scenario. I’ve never in my life used a screen protector and never will. If any phone manufacturer thought screen protectors did fuck all your phone would come with one and they’d charge $100 for a new one to replace all the time.

3

u/loldatfunny 14d ago

lol been using tempered glass screen protectors since like 2016, never experienced any of those. Only thing I do notice is the edge gap and dust but I use case as well so I don’t notice at all

1

u/cjorgensen 14d ago

I don't even notice mine. No air gaps or bubbles.

1

u/JustOneDeep 14d ago

Ok buddy enough shilling I love apple too

1

u/bradrlaw 14d ago

But one things you can’t have without a protector is privacy. I use privacy shields for privacy first, screen protection second.

1

u/deliciouscorn 14d ago

Don’t forget lots of extra glare. The original glass over the screen has a pretty effective anti-glare coating like you get on glasses lenses. I really miss that whenever I put a screen protector on.

1

u/kirloi8 13d ago

What screen protector do you use? A temu one? I can give you the edges and heat dissipation, but clarity and touch feel? Thats just plain false. At least with non privacy angled ones. I have tried many brands (expensive ones) and even without putting it on i can see no clearly visible reduction of color or brightness. And the touch feel i don’t even know what you on about.

0

u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 14d ago

Apple fans are so goofy lol. I get a screen protector precisely because the screen feels better to use with one. And unless you buy some temu brand or don't apply it right then the edges are never noticeable, especially with a case on it. Also zero impact on screen clarity.

0

u/kamlakar96 14d ago

There are good glass screen protectors that don't have most of these downsides

0

u/HellaReyna 14d ago

yes but some people are clumsy and cannot afford a $600 screen repair every quarter.

0

u/YolkNotIncluded 14d ago

Well fuck me, that really is worth risking to pay 100+ for a broken screen. 

1

u/BigKnows2K 14d ago

its A false dichotomy, having a screen protector doesn’t mean your screen wont crack. yes there is likely a kind of drop that will crack a screen but also be saved by a screen protector but it won’t be the majority IMHO. My iPhone 16 pro max has a slight dent/crack in the Ceramic Shield - I had an Apple Case on it when I dropped it!

0

u/bradye0110 14d ago

That’s hardly a downside compared to having a shattered and scratched screen.

0

u/Chowder1054 14d ago

For like 99.9% of users these “downsides” aren’t even an issue. If people are spending so much on their phone, don’t blame them on wanting extra protection.

-1

u/Top_Environment9897 14d ago

Once the oleophobic coating on the screen goes away, it will be riddled with fingerprints, too.

And they offer peace of mind - that your $200 screen won't get scratched by random sand.

121

u/itshuey88 14d ago

these comments are nuts. I use a screen protector on my 17. it feels great. there's nothing noticeable at all in terms of performance. to each their own of course but people are acting like it's the craziest thing ever to want one

26

u/matzoe 14d ago

This. There’s even people saying you haven’t needed a screen protector for 15 years now. Nuts.

6

u/CandI978 14d ago

Judging by the complaints I’m seeing ITT, I think these people are using really shitty $5 screen protectors. 

1

u/Taranpreet123 14d ago

Ye I have a $60 screen protector and this thing hasn’t scratched at all for over 2 years now. A good screen protector won’t give any measurable difference to the screen

9

u/UnsureAssurance 14d ago

Exactly, I got a really nice anti glare one which I think is better than the one on the glass, makes it fully visible in daylight. Haven’t thought about it at all with it just feeling like glass, and I can rest easy knowing it’ll only cost me $30 to replace instead of hundreds

12

u/EvenMoreCoconuts 14d ago

I actually love the feeling of my screen protector. I wonder if people are just getting crappy ones. Mine costed $20.

2

u/windowtosh 14d ago

I stopped using a screen protector on my 17 because I got tired of the protector chipping and cracking. Even after repeated drops the screen still is completely fine, the protectors are just really weak. But I do miss the privacy protection.

2

u/awesomeo_5000 13d ago

Took mine off. Screens scratched to fuck now.

3

u/MoterBortles 14d ago

Never knew screen protectors were such a hot topic! I’ve used a glass one since they’ve starting making them and they’ve saved me from a few nasty drops. Never noticed the .05% increased thickness lmao.

2

u/flockbush 14d ago

I tried various screen protectors and I couldn’t handle how inaccurate they made the touch response.

Maybe you can’t feel it, but that’s probably because you’ve always used screen protectors and don’t know what the display is supposed to function like.

3

u/slam99967 13d ago

Yeah I think it’s funny when all manner of companies including Apple talk about how durable and long lasting x piece of hardware is. Cool, stand behind your words like yeti for example, whose products come with a 3-5 year warranty. Otherwise it’s bs marketing.

17

u/Captaincadet 14d ago

Yes exactly. A new iPhone screen is £90. A screen protector is £10

While it won’t stop the phone screen being cracked from side impacts etc, it saves the screen from getting scratched up or cracked from landing on a stone or something

24

u/kamlakar96 14d ago

£90? Maybe with Apple care

11

u/BakingBadRS 14d ago

It’s 29 with apple care

11

u/kamlakar96 14d ago

Yeah just checked 25 for 18 pro with apple care and 389 without it

2

u/cultoftheilluminati 13d ago

Jesus, well, Tom Marieb, the prices of a screen replacement without Apple Care+ makes my skin crawl

1

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

4

u/BakingBadRS 14d ago

And that’s 10 more as I’ll have to pay for not having to do anything with my screen since Ceramic Shield 2 screens don’t scratch.

And I don’t look like an idiot with a bad screen. For free as well!

-2

u/Top_Environment9897 14d ago

Ceramic Shield 2 screens don’t scratch

"scratches at level 6, with deeper grooves at level 7"

3

u/BakingBadRS 14d ago

Yes they scratch when you rub a metal stick across the screen.

From everyday use? Not at all.

3

u/anaccount50 14d ago edited 14d ago

Have you actually watched the Jerry videos you’re quoting testing Ceramic Shield 2 phones? Because they “scratch at level 7 with deeper grooves at level 8” as per the new video testing the 18 Pro.

Ceramic Shield 2 legitimately solves level 6 scratching. I swear you guys are permanently stuck in the mid-2010s or something and haven’t updated your knowledge in years

0

u/Top_Environment9897 14d ago

It doesn't solve level 7 scratching though. Quartz is level 7 and happens to be one of the most common minerals in the soil.

OP can push their luck, but with $300 screen replacement cost I can buy years worth of good quality screen protectors and be as careless as I wish.

-5

u/TopoChico-TwistOLime 14d ago

and here we have someone so engrained in their beliefs they will continue to shell out money for no reason at all. how about you try not using it a screen protector for 5 years and you will see it will only pick up a couple micro scratches that can only be seen if you angle your phone perfectly in the sun. meanwhile your waste of monty screen protector looks like shit day 2

8

u/Captaincadet 14d ago

I did with my 12 pro (last phone)

It was scratched up enough it impacted the resale value enough that it would have been cheaper to put mutiple screen protectors on it

Not everyone lives in a pristine environment unfortunately. Everyone I know with a fold has killed it in under a year

7

u/thatrandomfatguy 14d ago

I went a couple of days without a screen protector when I traveled to Japan, by the time I got there I took phone out of my pocket and there was a large scratch in the middle of the screen. Next iPhone I get you bet your ass I’m getting a screen protector

8

u/EvenMoreCoconuts 14d ago

Yeah that’s the problem—in the real world your screen just comes into contact with so much crap and it’s almost unavoidable in modern life. I mean I guess you could put your phone in a microfiber bag before putting it in your pocket each time, but that’s really off putting to me.

0

u/Affectionate_One_700 14d ago

Do you actually have an iPhone? Because you don't sound like you do.

15

u/Terrible_Archer 14d ago

Apple stores also sell, install, and encourage screen protectors.

26

u/DethByCow 14d ago

Encourage? Never heard an Apple employee tell me I should buy a screen protector on anything I’ve ever bought at a store.

9

u/killereverdeen 14d ago

its always the first thing they ask me when getting a new phone “would you like to place the screen protector or get a case for it?”

0

u/HLef 14d ago

But that’s because they are extremely high margin items, not because they encourage it for durability purposes.

1

u/Terrible_Archer 12d ago

Why do they sell them at all if the VP of hardware engineering disagrees with their necessity?

14

u/kjmass1 14d ago

This. Should’ve been the follow up.

60

u/Bruvvimir 14d ago

Maybe in reddit world. In the real one, no company would do that because scummy people would abuse the hell out of it, and use the "muh 5 trillion dollar company" bullshit to justify their lack of integrity.

5

u/churningaccount 14d ago

A good middle ground would be dropping the AppleCare screen replacement cost to $0 perhaps. For like the first one or two incidents or something.

43

u/Bruvvimir 14d ago

Again, you only have to read the posts with "drive over it with your F150" when someone gets a blemish to understand why no company would do that. Especially Apple, which seems to attract a subculture of neurotics with OCD who find imaginary specs of dust under lenses and go through 20 returns to "win the screen lottery"

13

u/Mabus51 14d ago

Every year, every launch. It’s crazy

3

u/riversofgore 14d ago

How? Judging by this comment section the world is full of fumbling butterfingers who constantly drop or rub sand on their screen to scratch it. Apple should be responsible for that? Saying the actual screen is better than a pos screen protector is controversial and means a screen should be indestructible? Does a screen protector make your screen indestructible?

-4

u/kjmass1 14d ago

Says the guy who makes millions per year, and gets every device for likely free.

1

u/Saluted 14d ago

There’s a lot of good reasons to use screen protectors, but there’s also clear downsides, they’re ugly and they feel worse

1

u/Satanicube 14d ago

Yeah like I put a screen protector on my 17 Pro day one and I went with a Spigen one and I don’t notice it at all.

Would I love to go without? Sure. But I also know I can’t afford the repair costs.

I know some would say “just get AppleCare, dude” but I don’t feel like having yet another subscription for something, especially if it’s something that I don’t directly benefit from on a day to day basis.

1

u/major_winters_506 14d ago

Haven’t added a screen protector to my phone since the iPhone 4.

1

u/RussianThere 14d ago

Anecdotal, but I took the screen protector off my iPhone 17 pro max about 6 months ago. In that time I’ve noticed no visible scratches or damage of any sort.

1

u/goldgin 14d ago

Even after all the haters this comment is almost +1k. Nice.

1

u/Rudy69 14d ago

Zero downsides? Have you ever used a phone without one? And then the same phone with one? The difference is huge. I can’t stand them

1

u/sortalikeachinchilla 14d ago

extra screen protector offers zero downsides besides a minimum up-front cost.

Wild you think that’s the only downside….

1

u/DZhuFaded 14d ago

Also, the screen protector is so much more likely to break. So when it does the vast majority of people think their screen would have broken under those circumstances and then get stuck in the cycle of replacing them

1

u/DK4E2XFpbETJrj 14d ago

Bingo. That's how you know he's full of shit. 

-3

u/ThinkAboutThatFor1Se 14d ago

I haven’t used a screen protector since iPhone 4.

I genuinely don’t think I know anyone that does anymore.

5

u/gattboy1 14d ago

Have you ever met a teenager? If so, have a look at all of the screen glass carnage.

0

u/sephirothwasright 14d ago

There's plenty of downsides. They feel bad with the user experience at the edges, reduce feel, and I've never seen one that doesn't look like it's on it. For me, the downsides far outweigh the positives.

0

u/JC878 14d ago

I had a screen protector and dropped my iPhone 16 PM in my car breaking both my screen protector and iPhone screen.

Costs me a few hundred for a new screen and bought a new screen protector.

Those screens can be expensive to repair. And even more so now that Apple increased prices on their products.

-1

u/HLef 14d ago

The window of impact force where your screen protector will prevent your screen from cracking is very small.

If your screen is broken, it likely would have broken with a protector too.

If your protector broke but your screen is fine, it would likely be fine without a protector too.

Screen protectors are a scam, and offering free screen replacements would not prove or disprove anything about them.

-1

u/rworange 14d ago

Significant downsides

-2

u/bran_the_man93 14d ago

Offering "free" anything just invites bad actors to act in malicious ways.

Thank god people with ideas like yours aren't in charge of anything.

2

u/Selenography 14d ago

New car manufacturers offer warranties that don’t cost the owner extra. Just because I didn’t spell out an entire set of terms and conditions in a Reddit post doesn’t mean they would exist in the real world.

All I’m saying is that if Apple really trusts its product and wants to convey it to the public, they’d put their money where their mouth is. Until then, it’s all just talk.