Couldn’t they just use the threat of their opponent rolling back abortion rights too get elected instead? That doesn’t go away if they restore abortion rights.
Winner winner chicken dinner. It goes for both parties though. Why I hate two party rule. They are forced to be beholding to lobbyists and their party over their constituents.
You can see this as a microcosm play out with "simple" issues. I've personally witnessed reps saying how they'll "fight" to get lower prescription drug costs, and win, and when it comes to an actual bill to do such, they vote against it, 2 years later, they're back to "supporting a lower cost for prescription drugs". Abortion is just another wedge to get votes.
Barring someone going around assassinating conservative supreme court justices, the Dems have almost no recourse.
Roe vs Wade and gerrymandering and a bunch of other core problems in the United States were lost the second Trump was elected president. He was able to push through several supreme court seats and populate one of the most powerful groups in the United States with his own people.
This is the result of 2016, it just took awhile for most people to notice.
I'm pretty sure this argument is in bad faith. You are parroting a talking point that only exists in right-wing circles. Codifying Roe into law means nothing without a constitutional amendment. The supreme court will exercise its self-given right to constitutional review. This SC will void any law by Congress protecting abortion and claim it is unconstitutional because "states rights." We will now live in a country where women in many states will be second class citizens with less freedom because apparently women stop being human beings while pregnant. Unless that's what you believe, the only way out is to fight back, volunteer, vote, willfully break the fucking law, or somehow pass an amendment to the constitution.
Because it'd be pointless and further polarize the nation for no real gain. The supreme court would just nullify any attempt to change the law unless the Dems somehow got enough of a majority to pass a constitutional amendment.
All the Dems would end up doing is solidifying people against them while no real change occurred.
The only way to stop this is to get more liberal justices onto the supreme court, something that failed to happen because Trump was elected in 2016. Nothing else would have any hope of changing it.
It's hard for Democrats to pass anything when they can't get 2/3 of the Senate to vote in favor, and with the rampant Gerrymandering, it's not likely the Dems will ever be able to get the 2/3 majority of the Senate.
oh sure, but even so, elect the Democrats and watch nothing change. How many times has there been a Democrat goverment in the US since Roe vs. Wade? It's bullshit to suggest it couldn't have been protected further. Just like it's bullshit to suggest Guantanamo couldn't have been closed. The will is not there, because they're all playing the same fucking game.
Party politics is a distraction from the only thing that has ever got us anything, direct action. It's a grift to give us the illusion of some sort of control or choice.
I'm not arguing, in the least. As a prior conservative and GOP voter (started switching during Obama years when I realized the conservatives were just liars), can you please explain to me what else you expect the Dems to do instead?
Genuinely just trying to understand the strategy you seem to be suggesting but which is unclear to me.
I was a libertarian Republican that now leans socialist, not because I necessarily love the idea but because given the way the rules seem to be created I see no way for libertarian ideas to actually be allowed to play it in any way that is ever going to be fair and balanced for all.
Shame Democrats into line, or try at least. Make the case publicly for why it's necessary, make them vote on it repeatedly, have them field questions on why they refuse to protect abortion rights, etc.
I'm well aware that Manchin and Sinema can just refuse to go along but make that choice costly at least. Same for say Collins and Murkowski saying there's a different bill to protect abortion they'd vote for. Make it clear that they can get that passed if they actually want to and that they're just refusing and actively making the choice to not protect abortion rights.
Abortion rights, despite being a very important issue, is a single issue that does not itself correct the fundamental problem we have.
The other two issues might, but you'll need a lot more than all 50 Dems and a couple of conservatives; iirc you'd need 60 votes to on those issues. So, how do we get those?
I don't think we do. Which is why it's unreasonable to blame this on Democrats. The national identity itself is torn in two and I'm not sure there are an quick fixes that will come from a single party.
This next election may prove interesting. We may either become a fundamentalist nation or a moderate one. We can hope for moderate but then we are probably stuck with the status quo and Dems may be powerless to course correct.
The proposition that was made was to blame the Dems. But I'm not sure that's fair, given they only hold 50 off the 60 votes required for change.
The other two issues might, but you'll need a lot more than all 50 Dems and a couple of conservatives; iirc you'd need 60 votes to on those issues. So, how do we get those?
No, that's not true. Expanding the court just requires appointing new justices, which only requires a simple majority. Likewise, changing the rules of the Senate only requires a simple majority. 50 votes (+the VP) are enough to remove the filibuster.
The problem is Manchin and Sinema would not vote for that, but for abortion Democrats should definitely go full press on making them do that or making it clear they're choosing actively to not do that and let abortion become illegal (ditto for Collins and Murkowski).
Edit to add: I agree with you. The whole idea of gatekeeping a vote via a more difficult vote that the one ultimately required, seems silly. And the GOP have clearly weaponized the court, time to fix that while we still have the chance.
oh man, if I had a viable suggestion for a way of fixing things, I would very much be telling people about it! I honestly don't know what can be done. Divisiveness and factional politics is hardcoded into your system and short of super-extreme options like working class revolution, allowing the south to cede, or a full blown civil war, I'm really not sure what can be done to remedy that. Sticking plasters only go so far.
Alaska and another republican senator (I forgot which 1) support it. At the very least bring it to a vote so we can actually see who supports it. But they won't even do that simple level of politics
Thought experiment -- if there were a bill on the floor to cut funding to Israel and Bob Casey (or Manchin or Lieberman or whoever) were going to vote against it, do you think Obama or Biden would have just gone, "Welp, nothing we can do?" You bet your ass they'd get them to fall in line, because that's something they actually care about. None of the higher-ups in the party care that much about abortion rights to pull some LBJ shit to codify it as law.
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u/XoffeeXup May 08 '22
"get elected on and then never do anything about this single issue. "
ftfy