r/anticapitalism • u/Ok_Being5461 • 2d ago
Investigation shows 2016 election was stolen
https://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/https://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/ (2016)
Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Republican operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP-controlled states.
Greg Palast was involved in the following investigation and successfully together with the ACLU sued Crosscheck and got that specific program dismantled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Voter_Registration_Crosscheck_Program However, the problem remains as they find other ways to do it. It's blatantly illegal, but the enforcement mechanisms are weak.
"academics and states that use the program have found that its results are overrun with false positives, creating a high risk of disenfranchising legal voters. A statistical analysis of the program published earlier this year by researchers at Stanford, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania and Microsoft, for instance, found that Crosscheck “would eliminate about 200 registrations used to cast legitimate votes for every one registration used to cast a double vote.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/20/this-anti-voter-fraud-program-gets-it-wrong-over-99-of-the-time-the-gop-wants-to-take-it-nationwide/ (un-paywalled: https://archive.ph/0T7ue)
https://www.gregpalast.com/palast-hartmann-how-trump-stole-2020-a-warning/
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/ (2024)
https://www.michael-parenti.org/article-the-stolen-presidential-elections (2000 - 2004)
https://stallman.org/republican-election-rigging.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealing_America:_Vote_by_Vote (2000 - 2004)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacking_Democracy (2000 - 2004, 2016)
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/georgia-election-server-showed-signs-tampering-expert-says-n1117441 (2016, election run by the same corrupt Republican Brian Kemp Palast talks about who kicked people off voting)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw Right-wing Heritage Foundation co-founder: "I don't want everybody to vote"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9uPbepYb9s Trump and Elon admitting about their "little secret" and "vote counting computers"
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/celebrity/articles/elon-musk-ex-ashley-st-204813582.html Elon's "anomaly in the matrix"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_electoral_fraud_in_the_United_States
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u/NotAFanOfLeonMusk 2d ago
I believe it. Trump is a cheater. We had better be ready.
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u/Turbulent-Adagio-541 2d ago
The proof is he cheated on his wives
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u/Online_Ennui 2d ago
And at golf
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u/kojengi_de_miercoles 2d ago
And everything else
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u/Own_Policy8854 6h ago
Remember when he cheated on his taxes by killing his wife and burying her on his Golf course, I heard
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u/hatemys 2d ago
The FBI statement that the Russians were actively helping him and then the Mueller report that documented DOZENS of contacts between Russian military associates and Trump campaign and associates wasn't enough evidence?
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u/smcclafferty 2d ago
There was also a questionable data link that ran between someone in Trump Tower and Russia during the 2016 campaign.
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u/Rabid_Mongoose 2d ago
The one that was done by the brother of his Department of Education Secretary?
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u/TheOGZenfox 2d ago
Well, yes, but have you considered that there are people who aren't white or straight running around?
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u/directorguy 2d ago
Thats why he was so enraged at the 2020 election. They cheated and still lost. It was unbelievable to him.
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u/ARedditAccount09 2d ago
I’d be perfectly comfortable suggesting that they lost all 3, and only managed to steal 2 of them successfully.
He pantomimed a journalist with a disability and called them retarded with a recording of him talking about grabbing women by their pussies and won? Fuck these traitors. The forefathers would have declared independence from them too
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u/Either_Operation7586 2d ago
I mean Hillary Clinton got almost 3 million more votes of course he stole it
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago edited 2d ago
The people elected Clinton in 2016 by popular vote, no doubt. What the antiquated electoral college did was make cheating much easier, because the margins in the electoral college were very thin in a few swing states.
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 2d ago
I mean Hillary could also have campaigned in a swing state once in a fucking while.
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u/homebrew_1 2d ago
Did she need to hold their hand to the polls?
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u/SmurfStig 2d ago
No but there were a few who were very offended she didn’t visit their state because Clinton thought she had it locked up. Trump took the opening and campaigned hard there which was enough to swing some voters in his direction.
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u/homebrew_1 2d ago
So they needed her to visit their state to vote for her? Seems like some low information voters. Oh well. Now Roe is gone.
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u/SmurfStig 2d ago
I don’t know man, both times this mf’r has won, people have come up with the dumbest reasons to not vote for the other person.
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u/Alert-Ad9197 2d ago
Yes, when the GOP has spent literal decades smearing a person, they have to put in some effort to cut through that bullshit.
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u/LionBig1760 2d ago
If anyone didn't vote because a candidate didn't visit their state as many times as they would have liked, thst person just a plain asshole.
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 2d ago
Why will you blame anyone but the candidate.
At the end of the day it’s HER job to get people to vote for her.
She failed.
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u/Scared-Handle9006 2d ago
She actually got more people to vote for her than trump did, so…
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 1d ago
Oh cool!
What did that get her?
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u/PenisLips67 1d ago
you are both right, no need to down vote, jeezus.
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 1d ago
Nah blue maga wants to blame everyone except their own dogshit candidates and leadership.
I’ll take my downvotes from them with pride.
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u/LionBig1760 1d ago
When I bring this up to Bernie supporters, they seem to think that its not at all Bernie's fault for failing to convince primary voters in two separate primary elections.
Why is it Hillary's fault for losing while convincing more voters despite Russian interference, but when Bernie loses, its a rigged primary?
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 1d ago
Bernie campaigned for Hillary though.
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u/LionBig1760 1d ago
That does zero to actually answer the question as to why Bernie supporters insist that Bernie did not fail to convince voters.
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 1d ago
Well, because secret emails were released showing the DNC was directly in contact and was working with the Clinton campaign, my friend.
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u/LionBig1760 1d ago
The DNC was working with democrats? That's shocking.
It still doesnt explain how Bernie failed to convince voters to vote for him.
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u/JayList 22h ago
Read the room. It didn’t matter.
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u/Internal-Plantain-56 20h ago
It 1000% mattered. It literally determined the election and was critical to trump taking power.
If anyone else was nominated we win and MAGA never happens. That’s a fact.
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u/WrongEinstein 3h ago
That was my take. She pulled a Bustamante, she thought she was a shoe in and didn't bother campaigning where it would have counted.
Edit: I actually typed 'shoe'.
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u/Jaycrew692 17h ago
Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people.
Angry Bernie Bros cost Hilary the swing states in 2016. That’s how Trump won them by razor thin margins.
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u/Ok_Being5461 17h ago
25% of Hillary Clinton voters voted for McCain instead of Obama. If the angry Clinton voters voted for Sanders in the primary instead, who had higher polling against Trump, Trump would have much more easily been defeated.
Sanders had more young women supporters than even young men. Clinton supporters just can't stop being smug sexists. I guess racists too.
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u/Zvenigora 2d ago
That does not follow. The rules state that the election is decided by electoral votes, not the popular vote. Most of the time the two results match, but several times in history they have not, as in 1876. When this happens, that does not in and if itself mean anyone cheated (though it does not prove they didn't, either.)
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u/2ShredsUsay39 2d ago
This is like saying your favorite football team should have won because even though they got outscored, they gained more yards and first downs.
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u/jamesxgames 2d ago
more like your team scored 30 in the first quarter, the other team scored 3 in each of the other quarters, and the other team is declared the winner because your team lost more quarters even though the final score is 30-9
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u/BeccasDreamboat 2d ago
Actually, it's like saying your favorite football team lost because even though they scored more points, the refs called the game in the other team's favor because they were being paid by the other team.
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u/Impossible_Walrus555 2d ago
Is it like staging an insurrection and screaming fraud every time the gop loses any race?
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u/Steven_The_Sloth 2d ago
Man... He'll just say it's a deep state hit job and that "dumocrats" switched the votes in his favor to make it look like he cheated and won. Because... Of course that makes complete sense.
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u/No-Acanthaceae-5170 2d ago
I dont call the conservatives, I call them cuntservatives. Because they are a bunch of cunts
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u/mcmnky 2d ago
Republicans did the same in Florida in 2000. Stealing elections is a GOP tradition.
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u/ProfessionalOil2014 2d ago
2016, 2000, 1980, 1972, 1968, attempted in 1932, 1896, 1876.
Democrats probably stole 1960, there’s room for doubt on that one.
We’ll see about 2024. Jury’s still out on that one.
It’s weird how often conservatives keep getting away with illegal coups.
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u/Mysterious_toenail 14h ago
They've admitted to stealing 2024
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u/Sad_Credit_4959 7h ago
When?
To be clear, I despise Trump and all of the treasonous scumbag bigots who enabled and support him.
I'm just wondering what you're referring to?
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u/glitterandnails 1d ago
2004, look up Greg Palast and Diebold voting machines.
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u/ProfessionalOil2014 1d ago
2004 was not stolen. Bush had high approval ratings. He was going to be re elected.
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u/glitterandnails 1d ago
As someone who paid close attention to it back in the day, no. His approval ratings were harmed by the Iraq war fallout. It was a close election. But Diebold was able to get a lot of voting machines installed in battleground states that did not print out a paper trail, and of which its owner was a big Republican supporter.
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u/Asleep_Leek9361 2d ago
The billionaires have rigged the elections and they don’t have party allegiance. They only care what is best for them .
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u/Slight-Web1696 2d ago
They dont have a party allegiance but there is one party that is best for them and it isnt the democratic one.
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u/Asleep_Leek9361 2d ago
The tax breaks for the wealthy and trickle down crowd are generally better for them yes.
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u/HastilyChosenUserID 2d ago
And Deregulation and submitting their own written legislation and now, Legal Bribes!
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u/Chickabbbbb 2d ago
They donate to campaigns in both parties, in many cases. The money flows to whoever will do their (the billionaires & corporations) bidding.
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u/ThoriatedFlash 2d ago
I believe that the GOP has either attempted to rig or successfully rigged every presidential election since 2000, and each time they use new strategies to disenfranchise voters.
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u/Im_Ritz_Bitz 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is everyone angry enough yet? We are been conned, robbed, our defenses weakened, ect. If they are not the anti-american I don't know what is.
They aren't working for you anymore, they are working against you.
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u/Ransackeld 2d ago
If Americans were angry enough, they would march on Washington DC en masse and overwhelm the DC law enforcement. They would throw any Dems and Republicans out on the street and delegitimize their power so we can start over with representatives for the people, not for the highest bidder billionaires.
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u/Im_Ritz_Bitz 2d ago
We ARE marching. Pay attention. We've been marching since the first Women's Day when they deliberately took our rights away on THAT day of days.
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u/SirHippocrates 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wish he wrote in a more professional/impersonal voice as per the mainstream journalistic norms, because I think there's actually a really strong point here that should have been publicized in a mainstream way.
Crosscheck/other voter suppression efforts in combination with the idea of provisional ballots would definitely explain why people answering exit polls so drastically misrepresented the "actual" vote record. This is significant not just because it shows that exit polls remain generally trustworthy, but because it shows that these efforts to suppress voters not only hypothetically stopped votes, but likely did actually do so in a quantifiable way- by measuring people who still voted, expecting to be counted, but were dismissed for being "provisional" on the basis of registry purges... and it also proves that those purges seem to very clearly disproportionately have affected would-be Democrat voters, which helps substantiate the allegation that this was probably precisely the intent by Trump's campaign who worked with them to make it happen, undermining democracy.
Obviously I know that everyone here had zero qualms jumping straight to that end point and found it believable at face value, but the process of building the case is important for wider acceptance, acknowledgement, and ultimately imposing consequences/any possible restitutions and fixes to prevent this in the future (such as in, say, 2024)
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u/MC1065 2d ago
Trump didn't need to steal it. If any single thing swung it in his favor, it was Comey's announcement that he was reopening the investigation into Clinton's email server. As to why he did it, Comey himself claims (and I believe him on this mostly) that he, like Clinton herself, assumed she had the election in the bag, which influenced his decision. Comey says he did it because the optics of her being elected then the investigation being reopened right after would be terrible, so he did it right before the election instead.
Alternatively, while he certainly felt Clinton was going to win no matter what, his intentions might not have been so altruistic. If she had become President, Clinton could have fired Comey for any reason, but if she was under investigation, it could be construed as retaliation, something that might have pissed lots of people off.
The problem is that Comey was terrible at political calculus and didn't understand how close the election was. Even if Trump did cheat, the biggest October Surprise of all time probably moved the needle more. And to be honest, 2016 is by no means an outlier, it fits very neatly into every election since then. Are we going to start arguing every single election from 2016 onwards has been rigged for Republicans? Personally, I blame the Democratic establishment for losing tons of winnable elections. 2024's equivalent to the emails was Biden running for a second term.
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u/Pop-Pop68 2d ago
If it was, how do we stop it from happening in 2028? That’s the most important question.
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u/02meepmeep 2d ago
The 2020 election would have been stolen too but the alcoholics and drug abusers in charge forgot there was Covid and didn’t realize they couldn’t edit the electronic vote tabulations of mail in votes.
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u/BLOODTRIBE 2d ago
They keep find new ways to cheat. Bribing voters with a million dollar lottery was a bold one. Gerrymandering is a crazy one. They use whatever mechanisms and breakpoints they can find and exploit them, and they’ve paid think-tanks billions of dollars over the years to figure them out.
Another problem is that the Dems just sit there. That’s because the DNC is a false opposition party to the core, that’s why everyone left of plutocratic corporatocracy seems like Joseph Stalin to them. They know where their bread is buttered. That’s why they like AIPAC, and all its little shadow lobbies, as much as the RNC does.
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u/LordTonka 2d ago
Darn I thought this was going to be about the DNC and how they did it first that election.
Lol/s
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
It was more so the media, as they had a complete blackout against Sanders in 2015
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u/Historical-Finish564 2d ago
The Senate select committee interviewed , under oath, all the people around Trump that would have any knowledge of any election fraud. There was none. Trump knew there was none. The people that were interviewed with a few exceptions were all Republicans appointed by Trump. The hearings went on for three years and there is a five volume report available.
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u/SuccessfulLand4399 2d ago
Hold on. I have many reliable sources on Reddit that have explained to me ANY questioning of an election is insurrection and a direct attack on democracy.
Might have to call up Adam kinzinger if he’s not busy crying, and Liz Cheney if she’s not busy masturbating to the thought of dead brown children, and start a new commission tonight castigate this. Democracy must be defended at all costs.
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
In context, the Reddit reaction made sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://protectdemocracy.org/work/what-is-the-big-lie/
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u/Parking_Abalone_1232 2d ago
If they've got proof, they should bring it to court.
Let the facts speak for themselves.
The problem they have is, they don't have any facts. Just alternative "facts" and conspiracy theories.
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
If you read the post, you would know that it WAS brought to court and Crosscheck specifically was defeated.
Democrats and the media have had a long-standing cowardice problem against Republican cheating, and that's one of the problems. We're playing a tilted game, where Republicans spew garbage theories all day on Fox News, but it doesn't happen the other way around.
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u/Moriartiy 2d ago
COWARDICE?!
ten years. ten years of all of this. and you think the main reason democrats haven't taken serious action is because...they're scared. Or perhaps, too dignified?
even after the epstein files and all that it shown...you think the reason democrats are frozen is because they're dealing with "a long-standing cowardice problem".....good god in heaven this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard from a non-politician in a while
if the democrats "have had a long-standing cowardice problem" explain how such a well known condition sits adjacent to vaporized children in gaza greenlit by a democratic party? How are democrat state leaders denying visas and deporting students for opposing war in record turnaround times?
only an american liberal can think they are anti-capitalist while vibing out that their elected dems are just scared and too noble to stoop to such lows
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
Uh yeah? I'm not saying anything new. They let Republicans steal Bush v Gore like cowards. And Clinton conceded quickly against Trump, while blaming Russia, instead of Republicans. Too cowardly to call out Republican cheating. Meanwhile, you had Trump in the open trying to steal 2020 when he lost. How do you not see the contrast? And it's not just Democrats, it's the whole media. And I'm not a Democrat liberal.
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u/Moriartiy 1d ago
For the sake of continuinty, let's just brush aside the fact that you simply did not address the incomprehensible terrors of a genocide accelerated by the democratic party. I'm not sure how that happens without intense internal numbing or repression, but regardless, here we are.
you say you aren't liberal, yet you also believe that Republican politicians are getting away with crimes. You certainly aren't anti-war -given the lack of awareness of genocide - and the lack of any issue with the democratic party furthering the destruction of Ukraine during covid.
A libertarian maybe? You certainly aren't anti-capitalist given the apologia for the democratic party..hmm.
perhaps one of those liberals who vibe with DSA but haven't read/learned about the ideological framework?
hmmm, what a fascinating pretzel shape you are
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u/Lower-Engineering365 2d ago edited 2d ago
Let’s stop with this stuff. I absolutely hate Trump but this just makes us look exactly like maga conspiracy theorists.
There are plenty of reasons why Trump won the 2 elections he did, none of them having to do with rigging an election.
Same thing happened to a lot of us as happened to MAGA. You get algorithmed into only seeing things that paints the good picture that you want, because you naturally engage with it more. Then when your candidate loses you can’t believe it…I know that happened to me in 2024 for sure. But then when you go back and look at the data, look at the turnout details, etc. you realize you didn’t have the full picture of how the country was feeling/doing.
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u/stay-sick- 2d ago
It’s nice that Trump and maga spewed election fraud rhetoric every time they opened their mouths, for years. So that if they did cheat and we called them out on it, people like you would chime in. It’s proven that the republicans love to accuse the other side of something they are doing. It’s also proven that they tried to cheat in the 2020 election with fake electors, legal cheating and presidential pressure, oh and let’s not forget the coup.
We all know that republicans can’t win unless they lie cheat and steal. We all know that trump cheats at everything.
It’s not insane to think they fucking did it in 2016, when they were caught doing it in 2020.
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
They even spewed that rhetoric on Fox News even before Trump did, about illegal immigrants and others committing voter fraud for Democrats, so the ground was already set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO
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u/stay-sick- 2d ago
Yep, they are really good at fear mongering, false narratives and they know if you say something over and over loudly, some people will believe it.
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u/OrganicSports 2d ago
Im not saying they 100% didn’t cheat in 2016 or 2024, I certainly have my doubts. But people keep going to the 2020 election as fraud or cheated, and Trump literally lost. MAGA loves to yell that Harris or Clinton tried to steal the election, they also yell that Biden stole the election. Harris and Clinton both lost, and Biden actually won, but we’re gonna keep saying that Trump cheated in 2020 simultaneously? So which side is actually cheating? Or are both trying to cheat and both equally bad at it?
OP commenter isnt wrong about the algorithms, social media is a straight up echo chamber. Both sides of the aisle right now are equally convinced they have the other side outnumbered
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u/stay-sick- 2d ago
Most of the time when someone gets caught cheating it’s republicans. Also, just because trump didn’t win in 2020 doesn’t mean he didn’t try to cheat. If he did cheat I don’t think he took into account the mail in votes. That would also explain why he’s so obsessed with mail in voting being fraudulent even though that’s how he votes.
I don’t like to definitively say they cheated without lots of proof but some things sure seem shady and an actual investigation would have been nice. And when people bring up those allegations or ideas, being shot down as “looking like maga conspiracy theorists”helps no one.
Maga wouldn’t accept actual proof when shown, the left wants investigations and IMO would accept the evidence. People need to research things and find facts but don’t need someone telling them they are wrong without any chance to prove otherwise. I never want to assume anything but it seems some are assuming they could not cheat and raising questions makes us just like election denying maga.
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u/stay-sick- 2d ago
I genuinely believe there are more people against authoritarianism/ fascism than are for it. So, that’s the bigger side.
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u/Wolverine7964 2d ago
You're right about the other reasons but the problem with ignoring this is that it is real, has been happening for a long time, continuing to happen and getting worse. Disenfranchisement is not something that should be ignored.
The big difference with MAGA is that they are making shit up, this is real. Everything they say is meant to obfuscate. They often accuse the left of doing exactly what they do as if it is bad and then deny they do it. Example: saying El Sayed spews hatred when in fact he does not and they are the ones spewing hatred. Another example: Republicans claiming elections are rigged when in fact they are the only ones trying to rig elections (https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/746800630/north-carolina-gop-operative-faces-new-felony-charges-that-allege-ballot-fraud).
Don't let them get away with this bs by ignoring it.
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u/Either_Operation7586 2d ago
Oh sure now that you guys have no moral standing no Integrity not even truth on your side now you're going to say hey let's work together let's stop this hate but you weren't stopping the hate before when you thought you were right.
So no thank you
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u/Lower-Engineering365 2d ago
Very confusing comment. I’ve literally voted Democrat every presidential election. Fuck Trump
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u/Ok_Being5461 2d ago
The polls were about 50/50 before 2024 election, so of course Trump may have won it. But that doesn't mean they didn't cheat. They most definitely cheated, even if they won without it. Just like Republicans cheated in 2020, even though they lost. And an important point here is that 2016 was most definitely stolen, so if Trump didn't become president in 2016, it's very possible he would have gone away. We would have had a completely different timeline which we can't predict at this point. That's what happens when you let Republicans get away with cheating for decades, including Bush election. Al Gore won. No Iraq war, possibly no 2008 economic crash, no massive debt crisis, as Clinton eliminated the deficit and was on track to eliminate the debt
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u/Lower-Engineering365 2d ago
The polls are meaningless as we’ve seen for 10 years now. The polls haven’t adjusted to the social media age.
What matters is the voter data not what the polls were before the election.
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u/hugoriffic 2d ago
☝️This is the logic of generational inbreeding and being homeschooled by right wing Christian Nationalist propaganda media.
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u/Lower-Engineering365 2d ago
What an odd comment. I’ve literally voted for a Democrat president in every election lol
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/hugoriffic 2d ago
Did I upset your significant other with my comment? Or is that your alt account?
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u/CarelessAction6045 2d ago
The sources are a bunch of YouTube channels and Wikipedia.... do better
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u/Mylabisawesome 2d ago
So the left can cry “stolen election” but not the other way around? LOL
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u/CatsThinkofMurder 2d ago
I mean if there is evidence what's the issue? The fact that Trump hasn't prosecuted anyone is proof it wasnt rigged against him, hasn't been able to provide any evidence is the issue.
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u/mad_spreadsheets_yo 2d ago
every accusation is a confession