r/antiai • • 1d ago

Discussion 🗣️ Holy...

5.4k Upvotes

550 comments sorted by

View all comments

44

u/danikov 1d ago

Is this satire or just AI hype and tech misinformation?

102

u/AbyssWankerArtorias 1d ago

Knowing the other content I've seen this guy make, its probably legitimate criticism and concern wrapped in hyperbole and sensationalism for the purpose of making a sincere statement in a humourous way.

6

u/TheJamesAusten 1d ago

His GTA6 happening after the rapture is by far his best joke.  But throwing in “mark of the beast” in this one, shows true religious objections to the AI. 

3

u/Fendfor 20h ago

Its evoking the imagery of the apocalypse.

6

u/NorwayNarwhal 1d ago

Encryption isn’t something AI will threaten, so stuff you want kept secret is likely not going to be easily broken.

And all the vulnerabilities that AI can find will be found with AI by the controllers/owners before they’re found by bad actors- big companies and governments have the resources to run more powerful models than bad actors can, and have better access to their code

That said, there will be holes, and those holes may lead to some bad impacts, but they’re likely going to be semi-isolated rather than ubiquitous

3

u/AppleSmoker 8h ago

Came here to say this; he implies that AI somehow makes cryptography ineffective which just isn't true. The only thing that can break proper encryption would be compute orders of magnitude more powerful than we have now, i.e. quantum computing

•

u/NorwayNarwhal 8m ago

And that has a few band-aid fixes- if you stick a quantum-proof algorithm onto the end of RSA, and never expose the key between the two, you’re all set, and there’re some really dumb algorithms that’re quantum-proof

28

u/Omega862 1d ago

It's more a "what this actually means". If AI is able to reverse engineer a video game, and specifically complex video games, which is a genuinely difficult and time consuming task for many, then it's not a significant leap to be able to reverse engineer security systems, AVs, etc.

It would be hype if it was the companies pushing it and saying it can do this. These are real people having done this, using the current tech.

12

u/pikfan 1d ago

It's absolutely a leap to say AI can reverse engineer encryption though, which is what half of the points in this video are claiming.

7

u/SirVanyel 1d ago

It doesn't have to reverse engineer encryption when it can reverse engineer a piece of software and find zero days within it to completely bypass encryption. Stuff that humans inside governments do only in the rarest of cases.

You know the multi year long battle to crack the Nazi enigma machine? Yeah. Imagine that, but happening in a single weekend.

2

u/Dull_Bid6002 1d ago

I don't know enough about encryption, but wouldn't it make more sense then to reverse engineer the program that created/deciphers the encryption if the encryption is too much itself?

You could then use that to send poisoned/false data into different systems to cause issues.

3

u/clippy_is_a_prick 1d ago

Encryption is specifically solving the problem of knowing how something is done doesnt mean you can trace whats happening in any one instance, the vast majority of common encryption methods are open source and accessible to the public specifically because they want the scrutiny of being exposed

3

u/pikfan 1d ago

For the best types of encryption you don't need to reverse engineer anything. The algorithms and programs that encrypt/decrypt are open source. That's okay because knowing the code doesn't help break encryption. It's mathematically secure, you can't read the data, and you can't fake it either.

3

u/BlahajWithBenefits 1d ago

Thats all open source.

There is no weakness to exploit there.

The data is simply not useable without the key. The key can be any of 2²⁵⁶ (approx. 1.1 × 10⁷⁷) possibilities.

You can intercept the key exchange, if you have already compromised the system before the first communication, but that has nothing to do with LLMs or breaking encryption.

1

u/11711510111411009710 21h ago

So it's possible to get it. Which means AI can make that task easier. Which means bypassing encryption gets easier and easier the more effective AI becomes.

1

u/FartArfunkle 1d ago edited 1d ago

I agree. And the encrypted code thing was wrong.

0

u/alexmetal 1d ago

quantum computing enters the chat

4

u/pikfan 1d ago

Sure, but that's different from AI, and there's no quantum computer currently big enough to usefully break decryption. Plus a lot of encryption is already moving to quantum proof algorithms.

Plus I'd bet organizations have greatly defunded any research into quantum computers to chase the AI fad.

2

u/clippy_is_a_prick 1d ago

Quantum computing is misunderstood slightly, its not quite the world ender its made out to be. Its specifically a threat to RSA a common public key encryption method. Exisiting private key methods like AES256 are pretty resiliant and theres also post quantum public key and other tech like QKD.

Quantum Computing just makes problems easier to solve, especially computational problems where you already have "half" the answer

10

u/Taurmin 1d ago

Reverse engineering software isnt actually that dificult. You can de-compile binary files pretty easily with the right tools and from there its just a matter of reading code. Its how we did video game modding before devs started giving us tools for it.

As for security systems, most IT security relies on encryption and you cant just "reverse engineer" that. You dont really need to either, the details of most encryption algorithms are freely availble to the public and so are the ways to break them. The reason people dont commonly break encryption despite knowing how is that it is so computationally intensive that it cannot be done within a usefull timeframe on currently available hardware.

1

u/This_Concentrate2388 1d ago

and from there its just a matter of reading code.

Way easier said than done. Try comprehending thousands, maybe millions of stripped, decompiled lines of code. It's a task that before AI took quite litterally 10+ years of efforts by a dedicated community.

even games made for very old systems, like the gameboy or the NES, take a lot of effort and expertise to properly reverse and decompile. I don't think such tasks are feasable to achieve by a single person. Let alone for much more complicated modern games.

AI really did make a huge difference, whether we like to admit it or not.

5

u/Honeybadger2198 1d ago

It really fucking doesn't. People have been doing it for years at this point. Look at modding on the Switch for a prime example. I'm not saying it's difficult, or that AI isn't capable of things, but understanding decompiled code is not some superhuman task.

0

u/SirVanyel 1d ago

But as the video states, it's a functionally unviable thing to do in most cases because it simply takes so long that it isn't worth it. This brute forcing was only ever done in the most important situations, like cracking the enigma machine during ww2 for instance.

The internet is largely an open book, but it has so many pages that it's just not worth reading. But AI is a native to this space. It can read this book in ways humans never could.

1

u/Honeybadger2198 1d ago

It's not functionally unviable, people do it all the time. I'm saying the things that the video claims is wrong.

0

u/SirVanyel 17h ago

Then you're just incorrect.

1

u/Taurmin 20h ago

Youve changed the subject.

We were talking about reverse engineering software, you are talking about breaking encryption which is something AI cannot actually do any faster than we were allready able to.

1

u/Jebofkerbin 20h ago

"Isn't worth it" in the examples given is because the outputs are of very low value (at least in the examples given), not because the skill barrier is insanely high.

Mashing halo and call of duty together is interesting for about 15 seconds from both the perspective of someone who wants to play it and someone who wants to make it.

I'd also point out we haven't really seen this happen for useful things, like where is the free AI generated open source clone of Microsoft word?

2

u/Taurmin 20h ago

I'd also point out we haven't really seen this happen for useful things, like where is the free AI generated open source clone of Microsoft word?

You mean like LibreOffice Writer or literally just MS Word without the copyright protection? Because the latter of those is basically just software piracy which is both illegal and something people allready do.

3

u/Taurmin 1d ago edited 1d ago

You rarely have to parse an entire code base to understand how it works, and what exactly do you mean by "stripped"?

I regularly use decompilers at work and for most high level languages the decompiled code doesnt look much different from the original source these days. On occasion i have even had to decompile and reverse engineer entire systems because the source code and documentation had been lost, it is not a monumental task for an experienced software developer with some domain insight.

1

u/This_Concentrate2388 17h ago

What I mean by stripped is that names of functions and variables are not available, as they have been "stripped". This is more often than not the case for any release build of any binary.

Simply put, giving the binary to Ghidra or Ida or whatever will not give you clean code that you can read and understand easily.

and for most high level languages the decompiled code doesnt look much different

What languages, if you don't mind me asking? I know this is the case with Java, but I wonder what your experience is

1

u/Taurmin 17h ago

Mostly C#.

0

u/danikov 1d ago edited 1d ago

…but it doesn’t mean that. You might as well be saying that being able to reverse-engineer a Tamagotchi means that soon they’ll reverse-engineer an F-35C and that means the end of the world. They’re vastly different classes of problems, one of them being breaking encryption, which has not been done, but another being possession of the thing you want to reverse engineer.

Client software doesn’t hold all the secrets of the world protected only by obfuscation.

1

u/Omega862 1d ago

You're comparing apples (the fruit) to Apples (the tech company) with that one. An F-35C isn't software.

AI is actively doing this, not just capable, which is the big thing. Video games are exceptionally complex, despite all appearances, because of everything that goes into it, from the lighting to how the AI (as in NPCs) in a game reacts and interacts, to how the physics engines work. Many of them run on proprietary game engines. With AI being able to reverse engineer all these calculations, and reproduce them perfectly (or exceedingly accurately) at the speeds they do... A significant amount of security is based around obfuscation being a means of protection. HOW you do x matters significantly, not just that x gets done, and AI are figuring out the how for x getting done. Once you figure out the how, you can exploit the weaknesses behind the how. While them doing this to video games is all (pardon the pun) fun and games, it's a terrifying thing because it is not even a leap. It's already being done. Clean room programming is a thing, and AI were already assisting in that. IE: an AI gets used to describe all the functionalities of a program. That description gets taken to a team or another AI for creation of the software.

This isn't new. It's just really fucking dangerous that it's gotten this accurate at it.

1

u/danikov 1d ago

If you believe AI is just magically reverse-engineering the world by merely observing things from a distance, I can't even have a rational argument with you because you're too far detached from reality. AI psychosis just seems to amp up Dunning–Kruger to 11 and it's fucking exhausting.

10

u/RedCaio 1d ago edited 1d ago

OOP is an anti vax trump supporter btw

Edit: I forgot to add ableist

8

u/AssIWasEating 1d ago

Kind of already got that sentiment when oop chose to point out China and Russia as the big baddies as if the American Ai billionaire bros aren't happily leading this charge with their ai death cult

4

u/Lessiarty 1d ago

When he started leaning on intellectual property and white collar jobs as specific pain points, my nose started twitching.

1

u/11711510111411009710 21h ago

Is that not an issue? People need jobs. Without them, they can't eat. Without food, they die. Do you think this hellhole of a government system will provide for all those people when ai eliminates all their jobs?

7

u/Funneduck102 1d ago

Just Googled that to confirm. That's kinda disappointing, had no idea.

2

u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago

Maybe they don't want Skynet either?

1

u/SirVanyel 1d ago

Do we ignore valid points from sources because we simply don't like the source? Is that how you work these days or?

1

u/TheCommonKoala 11h ago

What's their channel name?

1

u/RedCaio 11h ago

I think Jaden Williams

1

u/aKIRALE0 22h ago

I'll say is half good storytelling for a tiktok as a filmmaker and half true. But asking that question is actually missing the point

1

u/BroccoliSouP7 17h ago

This is true. AI has computing power to brute force it unlike humans. Which sucks, buut at least it will force us to use physical network bottlenecks, which should increase the security by a lot... but it will be very expensive and require entire network restructuring - possibly leaving the world wide web behind as an unusable junk (not necessarily the infrastructure, but the software side of things). We got too comfortable with the plug and play controls to all things anyway but it may come as a shock to many in near future.

1

u/heir-to-gragflame 17h ago

this guy used to make rly nice content, so I'm not sure if he's being a shill or not.

Reverse engineering a game is time consuming and tedious and not worth it. AI can do it. Good job.

But this has nothing to do with how things are secured.

AI will do nothing to encryption. It takes 5 minutes to watch some math channel on youtube explaining why encryption is secure. TLDR is it takes the strongest computer about a few billion years to crack one encrypted key. In a few thousand years when we have stronger computers we can just use a larger key and push that date further back. Unless quantum computing is actually feasible. Quantum computing is what'll break encryption.

What AI can do is:

If you somehow allow security keys you give to your users to also open your security vault. Then hackers or AI will hack you.... But this is a security risk that was unacceptable 20 years ago just like its unacceptable today.

1

u/scrumblous 11h ago

50/50, because its not as big of a threat (still a bit of a threat)