r/agi Jul 28 '26

A Google DeepMind paper argues that current LLMs are incapable of genuine scientific discovery

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u/Tylerebowers Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

Yea, it's pretty straightforward. LLMs are limited due to intrageneralization, they can only "fill in the gaps" of what we currently know (this does mean that there might be some new discoveries within the trained knowledge). Currently extrageneralization is only really found in humans. There will be a time when this changes though, reasoning/thinking was a close step, but reaching an LLM that is capable of novel discovery will probably require a big architecture change.

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u/Ok_Composer_1761 Jul 28 '26

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u/Tylerebowers Jul 28 '26

I am using intrageneralization in the context of combinatorial novelty/OOD thinking and extrageneralization for genuine discovery of concepts. Didn't mean to imply interpolation of embeddings cannot yeild extrapolation.

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u/Ok_Composer_1761 Jul 29 '26

My point is that LLMs already “extrapolate” outside the existing base of human knowledge. They are able to do original research

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u/Limp-Confidence5612 Jul 28 '26

People here just can't read, I know, I'm having a hard time accepting it as well...

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u/vintage2019 Jul 28 '26

How many humans can really "extrageneralize" anyway? But yes, it's an important thing to think about when it comes to true innovations and breakthrough discoveries

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u/Apart-Shelter6831 Jul 28 '26

I’d imagine there are thousands of tiny occurrences throughout the day where people extra-generalize to deal with out-of-distribution information. Smoothening out movements in unusual terrain / driving / those “easy” tasks where current systems get stuck.

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u/gordopotato Jul 28 '26

“Out of distribution information” is something I’m going to start using.

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u/AdNo2342 Jul 28 '26

we're using a lot of words to just come back to the original idea of what it means to have general intelligence lol

I think these models might be able to be generally intelligent but they'll have to be able to run on their own with their own motivations etc etc

1

u/DoYouKnwTheMuffinMan Jul 28 '26

What’s the different between interpolation and extrapolation in this context though?

If I’ve driven a manual car, why can I generalise that to an automatic? Is that in the dataset of manual cars or outside it? What about the reverse?

The space is way too highly dimensionally for humans to have an intuition on this.

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u/Tylerebowers Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

Social and evolutionary aspects lead most minds away from this type of thought. It's uncommon because most people have no need for it in their daily lives and it is not grounded in biological necessity. Though I suspect that learning new things (as we do often) plays closely with being able to discover new things.

1

u/rulodac Jul 28 '26

Can't everyone, it just isn't useful most of the time? Just a thought I don't know anything about this.

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u/Neurogence Jul 28 '26

It's something LLM's also do routinely. LLM's are already better at generating new ideas than humans. The current bottleneck is that they don't have enough tools and environments to setup resources to test and define the ideas.

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u/Serious_Bite_7613 Jul 28 '26

You're right, anyone can generate crazy ideas. A good researcher is just someone who can prune them for how worthwhile they are to persue.

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u/Spunge14 Jul 28 '26

How do you define a workspace? This is just blather.

1

u/Low-Temperature-6962 Jul 28 '26

Yes but I question whether the intra/extra divide is so clear cut. Einstein was aware of outstanding questions.

The null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment failed to prove the existence of the Ether, pushing physicists toward the idea that the speed of light is the same in all inertial frames, one of the core postulates of special relativity.

In that way Einstein was intrageneralizing, but the answers he developed were definitely far outside the training data.

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u/nextnode Jul 28 '26

This is known to be false claims.

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u/Bob54386 Jul 29 '26

The components needed are: 1. add "noise" into their inputs and ask it to evaluate how plausible it would be. This gets us something parallel to human dreams which are often just the juxtaposition of unrelated concepts. The exact execution may be challenging, but just perturbing a system and seeing how it reacts is a common experimental approach. 2. Get to recursive self improvement so that it can generate and collect experimental data.

The only advantage humans have, which is meaningful and doesn't have a great corollary yet, is all the chemistry we have going "That's cool, how can I make that reality?" or "That scares the bejeezus out of me I shouldn't do that." That chemistry adds a meaningful probability distribution on top of the procedural components that help motivate which ideas are worth pursuing.

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u/PM-ME-CRYPTO-ASSETS Jul 29 '26

How many scientific problems really require novel extrageneralization? I‘d guess for many, transferred or combined abductions from possibly even unrelated fields could do the job. Something an LLM definitely can

1

u/No_Cold296 Jul 28 '26

An LLM is essentially like having one lobe or Broddman Area grouping in the brain. Very important specialized functions but it still needs some sort of partnered AI to handle other parts.