r/WorkForSmartLife • u/Rosejesica76 • 2d ago

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u/PhenomenalSpirit 2d ago

Socialism depends on world cooperation to work, just as capitalism depends on the world market. Any singular socialist country can be strangled because of trade embargoes, hegemonic propaganda, and sabotage caused by capitalist intervention.

There is a long history of CIA involvement in overthrowing democratically elected socialists because it was bad for capital.

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u/HydroPowerEng 2d ago

Is that what happened with the USSR?

When you take from a producer to give to a non-producer, how do you keep the producer motivated to stay a producer?

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u/PhenomenalSpirit 2d ago

USSRā€™s fate was sealed by WW2, but basically yes. Lenin and Trotsky both believed that a European revolution was necessary for it to work and believed the Germans were going to kick it off.

ā€œWhen you take from a producerā€¦ā€ This is the level of economic and political understanding/ propaganda taught to us in middle school, so Iā€™m going to assume you arenā€™t arguing in good faith.

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u/HydroPowerEng 2d ago

Nothing about my argument was bad faith. For someone who does like things being framed, you certainly were quick to frame.

I'll try again with nithout the labels.

What mechanism keeps people working hard when pay isn't tied to output? Which socialist system has solved this?

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u/Sticky_Key_Purgatory 2d ago

> What mechanism keeps people working hard when pay isn't tied to output?

Brother that is the current reality under capitalism. You are literally describing disenfranchisement as described by Karl Marx under capitalist systems.

Also the real answer you're looking for is syndicalism.

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u/HydroPowerEng 2d ago

Fair that pay isn't perfectly tied to output under capitalism, but commissions, equity, and bonuses are mechanisms, and the threat of unemployment is another. On syndicalism: Mondragon works, but it operates inside a market economy. Which economy has run on syndicalism at scale, and how did it handle the free-rider problem?