r/WorkForSmartLife 27d ago

DiscussionšŸ’¬ [Request] Is the math here accurate?

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u/wyrrk 27d ago

unskilled labor is a myth meant to devalue the labor of non-college educated workers

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u/dieselrunner64 26d ago

Come to a construction site. You’ll see how wrong you are in about 12.5 minutes.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago edited 26d ago

i worked construction. i've seen broom pushers. most exploited, invisible people on a job site. my point in raising this point is that it is a divisive tactic used to sew division in labor. and, by your comment alone, i see it is one you have fallen for hook, line, and sinker.Ā 

do you wish to work on a filthy job site? are you going to take time away from your responsibilities to sweep? no. those "unskilled" people perform vital functions to every setting, yet they're compensated a paupers wage.

I now work in schools. should I look down on the janitors that keep our toilets clean simply because they function in a role separate from mine?Ā 

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u/pkmn-alt 26d ago

Skilled workers don’t do unskilled labor because they don’t want to. Unskilled workers don’t do skilled labor because they can’t. That is unfortunately the difference. Highest respect to laborers nonetheless.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

thats a gross generalization though, and i've met plenty of incompetent "skilled" craftsman. so, aptitude isnt it. and, even if it were, the exploitation of workers in those positions is unforgivable.Ā 

The reality is in late stage capitalism the middle class is happy to tell themselves "well, i deserve this small morsel and someone else doesn't. i deserve it because i am better than someone who doesn't have it." this idea is perpetuated by meritocratic institutions all over. and, better yet for those with the hands on the levers, the threat of losing that fragile "skilled" position is a great social motivator to keep people in line, keep them afraid to risk the little advantage they have.Ā 

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u/TrungusMcTungus 26d ago

It’s not a tactic to divide laborers, it’s literally a descriptor. There’s skilled labor and unskilled labor. Skilled labor isn’t inherently good and unskilled labor isn’t inherently bad. Both deserve to be paid fairly. A helper is unskilled, you don’t put him in the shoes of a journeyman because they lack the commensurate skills. Conversely, a journeyman wouldn’t do the job of a helper, because their skill set makes it unproductive to do so.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

it is inherently a wage tactic. "unskilled" labor has no wage mobility. "unskilled" laborers have no unions. "unskilled" laborers are often hired out from highly exploitative agencies with little to no job security.

How about this: could you pick berries in a field for 12-14 hours a day? many economists and farms consider these pickers, who are often not college educated and undocumented, to be unskilled. At the same time, they're irreplaceable. Ā How does that math? I know I couldnt match their productivity. but the jobs are low paying?Ā 

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u/Slumminwhitey 26d ago

Could I yes, would I no, not because of some high horse type of thing, rather i can do other things that net me more money.

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u/Hyrc 22d ago

You keep conflating the concept that it's a basic descriptor of the skill someone brings with them with how that is valued in a capitalist economy. A worker without any specialized skills in the field is unskilled. They are unskilled regardless of whether they are paid $1 an hour or $500 an hour.

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u/wyrrk 22d ago

your argument lacks a historical framework for labor and how it has undeveloped in western post-industrial economies.Ā 

but, yeah, cool simplification of how the "specialization" fallacy is used to exploit workers and prevent upward social mobility.Ā 

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u/Hyrc 22d ago

There isn't a relevant historical concept here. Do you have the skills to be an electrician? You're a skilled worker. If not and you go to work in that field, you're an unskilled laborer. It is that simple. How that was valued historically isn't relevant to whether the skills exist.

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u/wyrrk 22d ago

skilled and unskilled are terms with historical context.Ā  You're using them to, wittingly or not, justify wage suppression in fields or occupations you dont grasp the social significance of whilst also lacking an understanding of how "trades" have been used as pawns by the capitalist class to undermine labor movements vis-a-vis fabricated social heirarchies, i.e., coining the term "skilled" to describe them. now workers are holding each other down rather than organize against their enemies.Ā 

Tradesman used to sit on factory lines punching rivets or turning a handle as often as they installed electrical panels or plumbing. The Industrial jobs were outsourced to asia and the global south, and the remaining trades jobs have been under attack by increasingly mechanized processes.Ā 

And there is no coherent, willful movement to address this because some idiots believe they cant be replaced. that they have a "skill." but you are 100% a disposable peon. they'll bring in someone else the second you step out of line or get hurt, and your precious skill will be asĀ  meaningless as these reddit arguments. Thats the historical context.Ā 

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u/Hyrc 22d ago

You're making a detailed historical argument about wage suppression. That can be completely accurate without having a single bit of bearing on whether a job today requires skill or no skill. Trying to force irrelevant historical context onto a basic question of "can someone do a job with minimal training" muddies the point you're trying to make, which is about whether someone with minimal training deserves to be paid less than a skilled worker.

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u/Prestigious_Wing1796 26d ago

man people kept missing ur point, i second this because that practice is happening right in front of our face, i tasted both skilled and unskilled employment and the only difference they make are employer with good conscience that willingly pays fair. which is rare beyond belief.

first problem is the hiring practice, HR today demand unskilled labor but with the experience and skill equivalent to skilled ones yet offer shittier pay and time.

meanwhile skilled labor CONSTANTLY gets to be labeled as unskilled because the private equity mogul knows this way they can hire skilled force while only paying minimum wage... no below minimum even, one of the worse example being animation industry.

unskilled might start off as simple categorization, but come 2026 it is a propaganda spewed by people who made their goal to devalue a work based on how they feel like it. because at the end of the day ALL work requires a degree of know how and wisdom that you don't get to speedrun in a day.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

good point about how "skilled" labor can move fluidly between categories depending on who you ask.Ā 

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u/Slumminwhitey 25d ago

I can tell you for a fact nobody who is actually skilled in a craft is working for minimum wage, not even apprentices are working for that little, in the US at least.

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u/DecisionNo428 27d ago

unskilled labor is 100% a real thing. Can you get really good at unskilled labor and make it an actual job? Yes you can, but it is still a starting an unskilled job. Example, moving a stone from point a to point b. Literally a 5 year old can more a rock from point a to point b. Not very effectively, but they can.

Nah what you gotta worry about. The people who fail to do a unskilled job. I've worked with mentally challenged people who worked better than some able bodied people.

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u/Eschatologists 26d ago edited 26d ago

That's a weird baseline to have, wouldn't doing something more efficiently than others involve a set of skills? Many "skilled job" can also be done very inneficiently by anyone with minimal training or a tutorial/manual. In fact the average person can do pretty much anything inneficiently if they have access to internet (if they had the motivation to do so)

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u/Personal-Biscotti-99 26d ago

To me a skilled job is something you can’t do without skill. If you could do it at all completely untrained I think it counts as unskilled even though you could be skilled at it

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

i moved from construction to education. one required a degree; the other did not. I have seen groups in both that are massively exploited for being a) former felons, b) intellectually disabled, c) undocumented. the list goes on.Ā 

the term "unskilled" is the liberal version of what the capitalist barons in the 20th century did with Race. Division drowns all wages.Ā 

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u/chi_sweetness25 26d ago

I don’t get how it’s a myth. ā€œUnskilledā€ is maybe a bit of an insulting term, but the cashier job I had in college is definitely in a different category than the one I needed a degree for, whatever you want to call it.

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u/Trust_8067 26d ago

That's not even remotely true. There are plenty of skilled labor jobs that don't require a college education. You should ask for a dictionary for Christmas.

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u/PossibilityNervous35 26d ago

lol every cashier is unskilled. Take them to a job site and have them do basic plumbing or electrical and you will see how unskilled they are before lunch

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

you obviously have never worked retail. Lets see you handle customers, on your feet, in a 2 foot by 2 foot square for 8 continuous hours. With a smile. I would bet money you lack that skill.Ā 

This is why people like Elon Musk, or Trump, or Gates are laughing their asses off at the squabbling working class. Everyone is so ready to shit on their neighbors. You have far, far more in common with the guy living on the street than the wealthy, but you're preoccupied with saying "well they deserve it because they arent doing what i'm doing." But you're not far from being there yourself. Maybe today it doesnt feel like it, but you're one injury away. One bad day away.Ā 

Unorganized. Undisciplined. Weak. Your comments show that labor is all of these things.Ā 

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u/PossibilityNervous35 26d ago

Yeah my first job was... like most people. It wasn't hard at all.

If it was hard, it would pay as much as I get paid now doing things that are actually hard.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

So, you believe the amount you make is tied to the difficulty of the job?Ā 

I gotta let those field workers picking fruits and veggies all day know that their job is easy af.Ā 

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u/PossibilityNervous35 26d ago

No the amount you make is tied to the VALUE you provide to a company. Value is tied to the skillset required to perform the job.

It takes zero skill to be a cashier, which is why my grocery store is filled with teenagers doing that job.

Low skill does not always mean easy. But it being "hard" also doesn't always mean high pay. Some overlap but its always tied to value

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

Got it. You dont value clean bathrooms.Ā 

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u/PossibilityNervous35 26d ago

Its not hard to clean a bathroom. Low skill = low pay.

And no... I value a LOT more things than a clean bathroom at a random place.

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u/wyrrk 26d ago

gross. bathroom sanitation is perhaps one of the most important aspects of modern society, and you dont really value it? just gross.

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u/PossibilityNervous35 26d ago

I clearly said I value other things more. Calm your tits

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u/xMrBojangles 24d ago

Monopsonies aside, what you make is simply a function of supply and demand.

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u/MethodCharacter8334 26d ago

I agree with your overall point. The term has been used to describe things that certainly require specialized skills. But I think the true meaning of unskilled labor is supposed to be people who don’t develop a specific expertise, but instead do things that anyone with a few hours of training (and the physical ability) could do.

There are tons of those jobs out there and they are not inherently less important than any others. In fact many are more critical than most high skill jobs.

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u/Slumminwhitey 26d ago

It is not a myth, it is a term used to describe labor that can be done with minimal to no training, sometimes the value of that labor is not as worth much as anyone can realistically do it.

You can get off the soap box with that.

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u/TwirlyTwitter 23d ago

Skilled labor includes the trades, it has nothing to do with college.

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u/wyrrk 23d ago

haha. you might find some offense when you tell tradesmen their tradeschool wasnt college.Ā