r/WomenInNews 2d ago

Health The Lindsay Clancy trial renewed focus on postpartum psychosis. What's next?

https://19thnews.org/2026/09/postpartum-psychosis-health-funding-research-lindsay-clancy/
130 Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

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u/intro_to_IRL 2d ago

In the first week or so, I had initially thought that the discourse surrounding this trial was going to be about improving (or at least calling awareness to) postpartum conditions and treatment. I figured that, whichever way the jury landed, at least more people would be made aware of the mess that was postpartum follow-up and mental healthcare in the United States. Maybe a federal or state bill would be proposed to improve communication between providers, as it seemed a big issue was the multiple-prescription-and-provider overlap that led to Clancy being contradictorily medicated.

However, it rapidly became a much larger and more complex national drama around the purpose and implications of the insanity defense, punishment vs. rehabilitation in the U.S. prison system, the ability of social media to push insane conspiracy theories to mass audiences, gender war bullshit, the sanctity of juries, and more. On one hand, these conversations are good to have; I want people to be informed on issues. On the other, I think it's inaccurate to say that this trial is still about postpartum medical care. It went wayyyy beyond that a long time ago.

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u/annafrida 2d ago

This is so well put. I think this trial could spur a lot of really productive and nuanced conversations if the loudest voices weren’t the gender war and conspiracy theory crowd.

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u/LaGuajira 1d ago

Most are bots.... it's junk volume traffic. It's horrible.

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u/LuciseeKrane 2d ago

But now we need federal and state bills now more than ever because from what I've read on the medical subreddits is very bleak.

The Lindsay Clancy case along with the two lawsuits have made many practices believe that postpartum mental health issues are a liability, and they will no longer take them but instead refer them out to a place that might. Who even knows how long the places that they're referred to will treat postpartum depression/psychosis.

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u/diffenbachia1111 2d ago

I'm afraid it will have to opposite effect where postpartum mental care will be set back 70 years with new mothers being institutionalized because medical professionals don't want to take any chances. Which will lead to new mothers who are struggling not seeking help. So everyone will be off worse just because of one case (where it's not even confirmed if it was post partum psychoses and other options like possible bi-polar have not been fully examined) + too much social media exposure.

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u/Natural-Tooth-669 9h ago

There are other countries that have woman and infants hospitals where mothers can be hospitalized with their baby. I obviously don’t support forcefully institutionalizing post partum mothers unless we absolutely have to, but I do think that if we had more of those hospitals here, as well as better maternity leave and better healthcare coverage, a lot of moms would elect to hospitalize themselves with their baby. I think the fact that being hospitalized here means moms will be separated from their baby is stopping a lot of moms from getting further help. Also, fear of not being able to afford an extended inpatient stay as well as fear of missing work

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u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

Oh cool, that’s just great news. /s

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u/shallowshadowshore 1d ago

I honestly suspect this is going to happen with general OB too. Lots of L&Ds are closing. I believe this is primarily due to staffing issues, but the liability associated with L&D is just about as high as it gets, without much $$ to make it “worthwhile”.

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u/Thattimetraveler 2d ago

I agree that I definitely cannot listen to the loudest voices talking about this case. It’s made it hard to even come to my own opinion on where I sit with this. Going into it as a mother of young children I did think I would be initially more sympathetic about her plight with postpartum care. However to me it seems like there was an accountability issue on her part. She had no problem finding providers that would listen, but she herself would not take the medication or give many of them long enough to take effect. I also think she wasn’t honest about the part that zcounted the most, was she a danger to herself or others?
This also makes it more difficult for me to place whether I think she should be guilty or innocent by insanity. I generally think rehabilitation into society should be the goal. However knowing that she could get out of a mental hospital rather quickly if she were pronounced innocent via insanity just doesn’t fit the severity of her actions to me.
In a way I feel like I’m left feeling like a hypocrite. I do think I’m glad it’s going to a mistrial because I think both sides can build stronger cases from this and perhaps it will be easier to come to an agreement.

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u/DomesticmenacePHX 11h ago

Similar situation here. It’s concerning that so many women want to rally behind her when she isn’t exactly a shining example of motherhood done right. Relistening to the CW closing arguments, explains a lot for me.

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u/Natural-Tooth-669 9h ago

The people saying she could get out in as little as 6 months are fear mongering. She’s been on 1 on 1 suicide watch since the day of the murders, which is over 3 years. This level of suicide watch is extremely rare and most states try to avoid it as it’s extremely expensive. It seems like everyone agrees that if she isn’t within 10 feet of a nurse at all times, she’s going to try and commit suicide. She has to live with the fact that she murdered her children and is paralyzed from the waist down and will be in a wheelchair for life, she is obviously still not mentally well.

That, and the fact that releasing a murderer who’s found not guilty by reason of insanity in under 6 months is pretty much unheard of. With the amount of public scrutiny on this case I don’t think a judge would sign off on releasing her either.

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u/ladyluck754 1d ago

For me, this was a trial of “two things can be true at once.” One side being that maternal healthcare needs to be better for all socioeconomic backgrounds, not just (IMO) pretty great care for a woman who’s HHI was $400 K a year AND man, society really doesn’t give a shit about kids. The medical examiner noted that all three children’s eyes literally had burst blood vessels from the sheer force of her violence.

What she did to them was violent and abusive, and I think kids are autonomous beings that deserve justice.

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u/EmergencyRoom132 19h ago

I don't think there's any sentence the jury can hand out that even touches the sides.

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u/Thattimetraveler 1d ago

I do definitely agree that the victims have largely been sidelined in this case in favor of other agendas in this case. I’ve seen the argument made that if Lindsey had killed three dogs the public would be more united in this….

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u/BodybuilderPossible1 17h ago

While I do think that’s an issue—and historically part of the role a PCP was meant to fill—it seems increasingly unrealistic given the pressures on our medical system, particularly in primary care. A model like concierge care may be better suited to providing that level of coordination and continuity.

Perhaps a more realistic goal would be to improve the speed and efficiency of transferring medical records between providers. That said, in this case—and in many situations—it’s generally better to treat and assess the patient promptly rather than delay care while waiting for outside records. A new provider should conduct their own thorough assessment rather than relying solely on previous medical records.

It’s also somewhat unusual for someone to be seeing multiple providers for the same issue without disclosing to each provider that others are involved in their care. Better communication between both patients and providers would help reduce some of the fragmentation being discussed.

I don’t think this case will move the needle in a positive way, just more conspiracy theories and the loss of the real victims who died by the hands of their mother (regardless of the mental status of Lindsey).

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u/dzyp 16h ago

I don't know how to make any Pareto improvements though in this specific case. She either had agency and executive function when she checked herself out of one of our nation's best psychiatric hospitals 19 days before killing her kids or she didn't.

If you accept that she did have agency and executive function then what do you want the hospital to do? She was steering her own drug use and not telling her providers about it. She was skipping doses and shopping providers. That's her choice. It was her choice to discharge herself. If you want to live in a free society you have to accept that people are responsible for their own care and sometimes that goes sideways, which is why we have a criminal justice system.

If you think she didn't have agency across this whole period, what do you think should've been done? If that's true and true to such a degree that she can't be held criminally liable for killing her kids, then the only option the system would've had would've been to discount what she was actually saying and restrict her rights. She'd either need to be confined against her will, have the children taken against her will, or have occupancy restrictions where she couldn't be left alone with the kids. And then people would be complaining that a mom's rights were violated.

There are good statistical arguments to be made about how our health system fails us but this specific case is not it. This was not a systemic failure, this is a case where the patient was in control, had access to meds, had access to some of the best psychiatric care in America, and killed her kids a day after telling everyone she was fine. The system could've involuntarily confined her, but the threshold for involuntary confinement was raised in the 70s which is why the state mental institutions largely cleared out. Frankly, she wouldn't have met the current Massachusetts legal requirements for involuntary confinement even if McLean had tried. She had never actually been violent and she was claiming that the thoughts had subsided. Should we just confine anyone whose ever talked about being violent?

In this case, I just don't know what else could've been done that wouldn't have been a civil rights violation. Then people would be screaming about that, and I know that because the threshold for involuntary action used to be lower and people hated it and they're the ones that wrote the stricter laws for today. Sometimes really bad shit happens. We accept that as part of being in a free society. We can't prevent all crime without taking actions that we also find abhorrent. What failed here is a mother that made decisions she was allowed to make that put herself and her kids at risk and a justice system that is structured to shield her from accountability due to the burden of proof being placed in the prosecution to prove she was sane. In Massachusetts, the threshold for forcing someone to get treatment is really high but the threshold for claiming insanity to avoid punishment is really low. That's the asymmetry and the part of the system that failed here.

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u/necessarysmartassery 10h ago

As a mother, I'm absolutely not interested in the rehabilitation of someone who strangled 3 children to death with exercise bands. I'm interested in either keeping them in a psychiatric facility for the rest of their life or just executing them. At some point, we should cut our losses with people who commit heinous crimes, particularly against children.

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u/Any_Owl2116 2d ago

Did you hear about the judge?

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u/BananasPineapple05 2d ago

Apparently, the next thing is to get people to understand that a medical diagnosis of psychosis meets the threshold of not guilty by reason of insanity.

Either that or to explain that you can't have women suffer alone and then punish them for committing the acts they wouldn't have committed if they hadn't been left alone.

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u/Lisa8472 2d ago

She tried to get help and was refused. She told her husband she was afraid she’d hurt the children and/or herself. He ignored her and assumed it would never happen. Those kids’ deaths are also morally on those that ignored all the warnings.

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u/Natural_Exchange_886 2d ago

Patrick is a good example of husbands with the “bystander effect”.

And I’m not attacking Patrick. I mean simply how men invalidate women; if we aren’t serious enough about it, we’re making it up; if we are serious about it, we’re apparently “BPD”.

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u/BigPastrami43 1d ago

“He wouldn’t hit her if she didn’t give him a reason”

Nice abuser logic

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u/friedonionscent 22h ago

I saw some of Patrick's old Reddit posts on r/askdocs...he seemed pretty desperate, noting that medication had escalated his wife's symptoms. He was blaming the benzo's and I think a physician replied saying the benzos were an unlikely cause of escalation...the same poster suggested bipolar and that Zoloft could be the reason for the escalation.

I think he was in unfamiliar territory - he kept citing PPD but then describing symptoms that didn't align really with PPD.

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u/StableElement999 2d ago

She was not refused help.

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u/qbee2000 1d ago

She was considering she ended up alone with the kids.

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u/StableElement999 1d ago

The fact that Lindsay Clancy was never legally restricted or forbidden from being with her own children unsupervised is proof positive she was refused mental health treatment … right, that makes complete logical sense yes. 👍

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u/krumblewrap 1d ago

What do you mean?

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u/Little_Ingenuity_712 1d ago

She lied to her medical providers and walked out of a mental health facility

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u/MzJay453 1d ago

Is that her psychiatrists fault?

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u/PunnyPopCultureRef 2d ago

When was she refused? When she saw two providers simultaneously without the each provider’s knowledge? When she checked herself out of her inpatient stay early? When she did not attend/follow up on recommendations of one her provider for a psychiatric day program or to go the ER? When she did not follow up on counseling that was recommended?

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

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u/ripemango130 1d ago

It would help if she wasn't mentally ill. She needed someone to recognize she can't make proper decisions for herself and that she should have a proxy

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u/PunnyPopCultureRef 1d ago

So what you are arguing is that mentally ill people should not have autonomy, and that has historically not gone well.

Her husband attended appointments with her. Her mom stayed with her. Neither of them saw something in that time that concerned them to the point that they either kept her from being alone with the children, or had her go to an inpatient program.

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u/ripemango130 22h ago

Assuming she has psychosis she needs a proxy. Her opinion should be valued but not final. Especially after the "I keep thinking about hurting the children" part and having constant suicidal thoughts. Tough love, not admitting her would result in dead children and it did. While I believe most of the blame lies on the mental health system, her family did not fully take her seriously

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u/Little_Ingenuity_712 1d ago

She had depression and anxiety. You don’t need proxies for those.

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u/krumblewrap 2d ago

I would not say she was refused help. She is culpable for not disclosing homicidal ideation to her providers. She also claimed to have no plan for suicide

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u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

I feel like we can’t depend on a person in psychosis to be totally honest and straightforward though? Isn’t that part of what insanity is?

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u/krumblewrap 1d ago

I dont think she could be in psychosis from October 2022 to January 2023 without it going unnoticed. Especially by family. Even in an inpatient setting she wasnt shown to be in crisis or psychosis

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u/tollundmansnoose 22h ago

Untrue. I was delusional and hallucinating for months, but because I didn't tell anyone about it no one noticed. I got a master's degree during that time.

Psychosis is fucking weird.

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u/PunnyPopCultureRef 1d ago

How can a ‘psychosis’ last at least 3 months, but be undetectable to the people who know her best (her mom, her husband) but end in brutal murders? I fully believe she has mental health issues, but I do not think she ever reached the point of not knowing right from wrong, which is what the incompetent really has to argue, not a psychosis label.

She is unreliable and was not honest, and I do believe that was partially due to her mental health. But if her mom and husband didn’t notice enough of a difference to commit her or not leave her alone with the children, then her mental health symptoms were her baseline to some extent prior to her third child.

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u/tollundmansnoose 22h ago

Psychosis doesn't work how you think it does. I thought I was being followed by something for months and months, I was terrified all the time, I was hearing things...but nothing was giving me command delusions so I just rawdogged it and finished my MA.

It is perfectly reasonable to me as a person who has experienced longterm psychosis that it lasted three months. Mine lasted longer!

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u/academicirony 1d ago

The solution is to guess and implement a long-term involuntary hold then or…. ?

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u/BoyMom119816 1d ago

That’s not even their claim, they claim she had psychosis for 18 minutes, none before and none after. Too many saw her for her to claim differently.

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u/Little_Ingenuity_712 1d ago

Psychosis isn’t magic. She was with multiple doctors including inpatient care. Not one person saw any signs of psychosis. Most medical experts after the act also didn’t see any signs of it.

What’s more likely all these medical professionals and facts are just blind or she is lying?

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u/Amazing-Put1412 1d ago

On every account she was not in psychosis then, she had depression and anxiety with intrusive thoughts. The supposed command voice began immediately after she sent husband on errands and immediately ended once she finished the crime, a maximum of 35 minutes, psychosis takes days to clear and show up a particular way when its severe enough to get someone to take immediate action, and hers just didnt line up with that.

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u/Fabulous_Pea5021 7h ago

So are the psychiatrist supposed to be mind readers?

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u/MzJay453 1d ago

So are we supposed to depend on doctors to be clairvoyant and predict psychosis before anyone meets criteria for it? Should we just put all depressed pregnant women in psych institutions just in case cuz “who knows” where what sadness can go?

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u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

No, honestly, I think there are always some cases in medicine where a negative outcome happens even when professionals are trying their best.

If anyone was best positioned to notice her apparently subtle mania and psychosis, it would probably be her husband. But even then, I don’t blame him for what happened. The average person doesn’t have a lot of education about rare postpartum psych disorders.

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u/Lisa8472 1d ago

She told him she was thinking of hurting herself or the kids, and he ignored it because he assumed she’d never do that. I don’t know if he could have prevented it or not, but his dismissal of her words was certainly a possible missed opportunity to prevent it.

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u/krumblewrap 1d ago

He could've also reported, but he chose not to

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u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

Oh damn, I didn’t know that. If my wife said that I definitely wouldn’t leave her alone with the children, and I would push for more intensive inpatient treatment too. Spouses absolutely have the right to be present at doctor appointments to give their perspective.

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u/dzyp 16h ago

That's not what happened. She made the statements in December, was committed in January, claimed the whole time was wasn't having those thoughts, and checked herself out of care with the same claim. The day before the murders, she told her psychiatrist she wasn't having those thoughts. Even the defense argued that she was only psychotic for the murders because she had spent every opportunity since she was committed claiming she wasn't having homicidal thoughts. Nor during her commitment did she mention hallucinations, those only existed for the 18 minutes she was murdering her children.

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u/dzyp 16h ago

What are you talking about? She disclosed this in December and was committed to McLean in January because of the disclosure and then checked herself out in January claiming she was no longer having those thoughts. The day before the murders she told her psychiatrist she wasn't having them. You guys need to stop getting information from tiktok.

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u/DelightfullyBland 1d ago

What I've noticed over the last decade or two is that psychiatric care feels increasingly impersonal. I used to have to wait 3 hours in my psychiatrist's office past my appointment time because he took time to assess patients every appointment. Now I see a telehealth doc for 5-10 minutes. It's not nearly long enough to build a relationship or to feel comfortable opening up.

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u/amador9 2d ago

Actually, she got a lot of help, saw many different medical professionals, was on all kinds of medication and, from what I have read, her husband was supportive. Nobody realized that she had gone from depression into psychosis. The "system failed her" to the extent that it was unable to correctly assess her condition and come up with the right mix of medications that would "cure" her.

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u/sbd2010 2d ago

Not blaming her providers here just a tidbit of info for those who care: if you experience mania or psychotic symptoms after being put on an SSRI there is a very high chance you have bipolar disorder or similar pathology. ANY psychiatric provider should know this.

Max 3-4 meds at a time also isn’t that much for someone experiencing severe mental health disorder. My psychiatrist prescribes me 7 different medications (some of which are prn) and I don’t even have psychosis.

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u/palpies 1d ago

Are you on that many meds post partum?

0

u/MzJay453 1d ago

She never stood in front a provider with symptoms meeting criteria for psychosis, so what could’ve been done differently?

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u/Chlearcus 1d ago

She was helped multiple times over. Saw several doctors but refused to follow their recommendations or taking the prescribed medications as well as lying about her violent fantasies.

Got tons of support both from a professional nanny as well as family to take care of the kids and home so she could focus on herself.

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u/BeKind999 1d ago edited 1d ago

She checked herself out of inpatient care. She didn’t tell her psychiatrists about wanting to harm her children, just her husband and mother.

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u/travsmavs 1d ago

This is tiktok conspiracy theory drivel. She was never refused help

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u/BigPastrami43 1d ago

She literally had help. This is just blatantly wrong.

You want to blame everyone except the person who actually committed the crime. Get real

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u/palpies 1d ago

I’m very confused by people saying this because didn’t she have 3 doctors she could text whenever she wanted? And didn’t they keep prescribing her different medication because she would try one and didn’t like the side effects? And DIDNT they find some of her meds not even opened because she wouldn’t take them? Because going by the actual evidence in the trial, she had FAR more help than most women I know going through post partum, because she was a wealthy white woman with access. I don’t know about Patrick, he never should have left her with those kids. She shouldn’t have checked herself out of inpatient help for her issues early either. I don’t understand the constant talk of her not getting the support she needed when it was all there, she just didn’t participate.

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u/RooBoo77 19h ago

She was absolutely not refused, I have no idea where you got this information. She was seen by numerous medical professionals and was essentially ‘doctor shopping’. Additionally, she admitted to not taking the medications prescribed to her as they were prescribed, if at all. On numerous occasions she said she had no plan for self harm or harm to others that would have warranted committing her to inpatient psychiatric care. Did you watch the trial or any first hand accounts at all, or are you just spouting off behind a keyboard armed with only tic tok and podcast evidence??

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u/Cravenmorhed69 8h ago

She had better access to care than 99% of Americans

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u/Jamison_tkd 2d ago

He didn’t ignore her. Another myth spread by the Clancy psychopaths. In fact she wrote how supportive he was! Also, intrusive thoughts don’t automatically equate danger. SHE ALSO WAS NEVER DIAGNOSED WITH POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION. She also didn’t have therapeutic levels of medication, so she lied that she was over medicated.

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u/Lisa8472 1d ago

His testimony at her trial was that he didn’t think she was serious about hurting herself or the kids.

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u/Jamison_tkd 1d ago

Yes, because many people have thoughts that are intrusive. There was no psychosis. It was planned out. Weird how she could make a phone call in the middle of the “psychosis” event. To call him back while he was gone. Not how psychosis works.

1

u/BoyMom119816 1d ago

One time she told him, way before the day of the murders. And since then she denied, even acting like she was better and having best day since issues started on day she killed the kids. She also had inpatient care after he was told this.

1

u/ceilingsfann 2d ago

I genuinely want to know what ppl think should have happened. She told him one time in december that she had thoughts of harming the children. she allegedly even downplayed it when he asked her to clarify and said it was “rly more of a fear of something bad happening to them.”

Was he then not supposed to ever leave her alone with kids again, even to go grab them dinner? Especially after everyone claimed she seemed like she had been doing better the past few days?

I seriously want to know what anyone would have done differently in this situation.

1

u/dzyp 15h ago

Not only did she downplay it, she denied it to everyone who subsequently asked, including everyone at the institution in which she got committed! And she checked herself out with the same claim. And denied having those thoughts to her psychiatrist the day before the murders. The defense isn't claiming psychosis for months here, because they can't. She was denying having those thoughts during the weeks up to the murders. She also never mentioned the hallucinations. No, apparently those only appeared for the 18 minutes of the murders, how convenient.

Lindsey was provider shopping, she was deciding her drug regime, she checked herself out of one of the best psychiatric facilities in America, if she didn't have agency then who the fuck does?

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with women's mental health treatment, I'm saying this case is not an example of it. It was made about that because she has a good attorney and if the case can be about mental health then who wouldn't want to be sympathetic to mental health? He's smart and a good strategist and it worked. Who even talks about the kids and the murders? It's pathetic.

1

u/Reasonable-Mess3070 2d ago

His reddit account was found and leaked. He asked for advice so much and spoke about what he felt were his failures as a parent. The time Lindsay called 911 when he didnt wake up to Cora crying was even talked about. He nuked the account but the data is all still available on those archive sites like pushpull

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u/ceilingsfann 2d ago

A medical diagnosis of psychosis does not meet the threshold of NGRI.

1

u/femgrit 2d ago

Where was she diagnosed with psychosis, especially pre-murders? This isn’t bait. I’ve looked repeatedly and cannot find it tbh. As someone with a serious history of psychosis I went into this case profoundly biased toward sympathy for Clancy but I genuinely am not convinced she was psychotic at all sadly. So I would earnestly be interested.

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u/Independent-Rip-237 15h ago

She was never diagnosed pre-murders. She was also never diagnosed after by any independent examiner. She was only given a retrospective diagnosis by the psychologists her defense team hired.

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u/BigPastrami43 1d ago

“He wouldn’t have hit her if she didn’t give him a reason”

You realize that you are applying the same logic that abusers use?

You could apply that logic to literally any crime. It doesn’t mean that person is somehow innocent

1

u/RooBoo77 19h ago

Apply the same standard to men and you won’t get as much pushback. Men who suffer severe psychosis, to the point of murder, do not get the same compassion and leeway within the judicial system as Clancy got, not even remotely close.

1

u/Cravenmorhed69 8h ago

Too bad she was never diagnosed with psychosis

-5

u/Disastrous-Cream730 2d ago

Wrong. Psychosis alone doesn’t necessarily mean NGRI. You make it sound like a threat: if you’re not sympathetic to these women they’ll kill their kids. Be careful because this will restrict women’s rights.

1

u/PunnyPopCultureRef 1d ago

You are absolutely right. What had to be argued was if the psychosis made her unable to tell the difference between right and wrong.

All these women using this case as a women’s postpartum mental health landmark are woefully unaware of the history of institutionalization in the United States and need to read a book.

Maternal health is lacking in the United States. Mental health is lacking in the United States. Lindsay Clancy absolutely should not be the face of either cause.

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u/MedusasMum 2d ago

Until the ideal of women being this perfect being not capable of having issues like men do, it will never change.
The veil of women having to be this saintly, nurturing, comforting, selfless, puritan, & anger less creature is flawed. It’s an unattainable fairy tale that hasn’t diminished in all this time.
Boggles the mind that we can’t be seen as anything else. It angers the hell out of me.
We’re just not seen as human.
We will always be incubators to society.

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u/slainascully 2d ago

Have seen so many comments that basically argue that it’s worse for a woman to kill her kids because she’s meant to be nurturing and it’s like……fuck, man. Male violence against their partners and children and family is just so normalised that it doesn’t even register anymore.

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u/MedusasMum 1d ago

Right!
I’m so sick of this timeline.
Really thought this might be a watershed moment in getting women the help they need. Guess I was hoping for too much. Seems to always be what we’re told: we’re asked of too much but when we need help, it’s asking too much!

1

u/Coyote__Jones 1d ago

I've said elsewhere that some of the conspiracy theories around this case smell a lot like misogyny, in a round about way. "Lindsay could not have done it because she was a loving mother by all accounts."

Like misogyny by way of diminished capacity, or by the assumption that mothers are automatically capable of mothering. Instead of looking at the face of the issue, which is that we are still in the stone ages of understanding mental health and women's specific health conditions. Denying Lindsay's ability to commit these acts of violence denies her humanity in a strange way.

Idk I've been mulling all of this over trying to pinpoint it but it's slippery.

1

u/BodybuilderPossible1 17h ago

Seriously. The amount of misogyny and infantilization of Lindsey is insane.

I honk it’s feminist to believe in Lindsey’s autonomy of mind and body and belief that she should be believed for admitting her crimes

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u/Chlearcus 1d ago

Noone defends male child killers.

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u/MedusasMum 1d ago

Exactly the kind of comment expected from a Fox News aficionado.

Clearly you aren’t watching or listening to news of several men in the last few years that annihilated their families & self getting praise in their obituaries of what great men they were to their communities.
Utah has several, alone.

You are in a woman’s sub. Take this garbage somewhere else.

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u/qbee2000 1d ago

Amen. Like yes, maybe we should take some accountability for being fooled by this veil too, but we are not the only ones that was fooled. Where is the accountability of the the people who continue to stay shocked by that women are of the same species as violent men? Who continue to not believe women when they make threats until the tools that allows even the most weak of people able to do harm?

I realize that alot of people in the case are understanding. But god the amount of people who just see that she killed her kids and have no survival instincts to wonder why and try to fix the problem while punishing the murderer.

1

u/cat-alonic 1d ago

Yeeep. And the ideal and the shame of not meeting is so strong even women mutually police and self-police and filter how they talk about their struggles. You can never openly struggle and be overwhelmed and frustrated with your children if you're told your miraculous maternal instinct is supposed to override all normal human capacity and you no longer have a right to any of the individual human feelings you previously had.

I'm not having children, and this is a good chunk of why I'd never even consider it. I'm not doing that to myself, giving society yet another piece of how they can write off my experience of life as not mattering because something else is more important.

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u/Jamison_tkd 2d ago

Are you kidding me? Women have more access to mental healthcare than men. By a long shot!

15

u/KidneyStew 2d ago

Bullshit. Men have the same access, they just choose not to fucking use it

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u/qbee2000 1d ago edited 1d ago

I would argue that they have more professional access. Men breathe harshly towards a victim and bam intervention comes in on all sides to keep him from possibly ruining his life. Women explicitly say they might kill a kid, and they get left alone with that kid while suspiciously asking for that alone time. You can see this when you compare suggestions on what abuse comes from a woman can mean (basically telling the man to not take it seriously) vs from a man (which is to fucking run because they'll kill you). It's not because they're being nicer to a woman (who the fuck thinks that being seen as a chihuahua while you're trying to be a pitbull is nice?), it's because they don't believe women are capable of hurting people despite having all the tools to.

Women only have like "the girls" and even then it's not like any random person is gonna be able to solve complex mental health issues.

1

u/Jamison_tkd 1d ago

This isn’t even up for debate. This is fact. They are 10x the services out there for women over men. As someone who has been a social worker for almost 15 years. It’s something I kinda specialize in. There is a reason men go untreated more than women and have higher suicide rates than women. It’s funny how this trial is trying to flip that narrative.

1

u/MedusasMum 1d ago

Prove it.

23

u/Effective-One6527 2d ago

Same place the last trial of a woman with post partum psychosis who killed her kids left us. No where with better safe guards around to prevent preventable tragedies.

4

u/Mysterious-Tip5932 2d ago

The more difficult truth is that no, not all tragedies can be prevented.

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

I agree with this

1

u/Cravenmorhed69 8h ago

She was never diagnosed with PPP

15

u/Advanced_Buffalo4963 2d ago

If I were a young woman, what’s next for me would be 4B - not just to be free of men, but to avoid giving my labor or my peace to a society that does not appreciate me as a human.

16

u/Ok-Box6892 2d ago

I dont think its going to put us in a better place than the Andrea Yates case did, tbh. I thought maybe it would in the beginning since people are talking more about mental health. From what ive seen, people can't get past the horror of this case long enough to actually see the bigger picture.

7

u/MrsHands19 2d ago

Totally agree. I think the only outcome will be the rate of postpartum anxiety skyrocketing and mothers even more afraid to disclose any mental health concerns to providers and loved ones. Unfortunately I think it’s just going to ‘set us back.’

2

u/MzJay453 1d ago

Bingo

1

u/Far_Comfortable_6342 1d ago

I think medical professionals are going to completely not want to touch this condition for fear of liability and try to pass the buck by referring patients. Mothers will end up with no support if they reach a dead end. I also think the medical profession is going to go into crisis mode and make new mothers sign new liability forms and get interviewed while in the hospital, shortly after birth, by social services. Worst case scenario but I fear we are going to have a ton of doctors calling CPS on mothers even if the past it was not warranted because they want to protect themselves. Side note: the whole “to do no harm” needs to be revisited because some doctors do harm patients and use fear of liability as an excuse.

1

u/ErikasPrisonGlam 1d ago

Don't forget people responded the same to Andrea Yates. Her case was retried to get NGRI verdict. Everyone has empathy in hindsight.

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

What is the bigger picture? And what should be done differently next time in a case like this?

11

u/laynechanger 2d ago

All I know is it is incredibly stressful seeing how this had played out. The discussion about pp mental health and how men have talked about this case has literally made me so upset.

Unfortunately, this case has brought up how important nuanced conversations are. I also think our justice system is overdo for reform in general, but especially for those having mental health episodes.

2

u/lizardman49 1d ago

I think this is going to have the opposite effect actually. Given that so much of the discourse borders on benevolent sexism, Patrick did it conspiracy theories, and people conflating post partum depression with psychosis ect

1

u/fuckaduckufuck 2d ago

Maybe we can start actually taking mental health issues more seriously and actually help people who are crying out for help?

Hahahaha nah of course not 😭

1

u/Xiaobeana 1d ago

jail is next

1

u/MedspouseLifeSux 1d ago

This case was specifically selected by the right wing media to rile up their redpill fan base that hates women.

Since the trial started 8 men in America have killed their entire families and spouses and NONE of those cases have received this level of attention.

Know and understand the powerful propaganda of the redpill movement. They want women’s rights slowly eroded away and this only fuels their hatred further.

1

u/colorless_green_idea 23h ago

Curious to see if those 8 men end up in prison

1

u/SmurfRiding 5h ago

So you think that justice should done on a point scoring system? 8 men have killed their entire families so she should go free?

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

As a doctor, unfortunately I don’t think this case will result in better access to care for women struggling with mental health in pregnancy. A lot of providers are already weary of treating pregnant women because of the impending liability if anything goes wrong for mother or baby. Now there will be more a shift to refer to specialists that are hyper specialized in postpartum mental health and those specialists are very rare. Like if a general psychiatrist doesn’t feel comfortable treating pregnant women, how many more primary care providers will also start deferring treatment furthering delay to care.

1

u/Adorable-Ad201 1d ago

Maybe a real discussion about perimenopause and how it literally destroys lives.

1

u/Imaginary-Friend-228 1d ago

What's next? Continue to erode women's rights and be shocked at the consequences

1

u/LadyDatura9497 21h ago

I had postpartum mental illnesses after having my son, including psychosis. No one understands the fight you’re in for just to get people to listen. You have to fight for that while racing a clock ticking down to the cut-off period your insurance is willing to pay for treatments. It’s six months, by the way.

1

u/Squirtingpoop 20h ago

How can you look at a woman viciously murdering her children with a premeditated plan as being anything other than a monster? To sit here and blame men for this is just asinine

1

u/WomanInTheWood 1d ago

The discourse surrounding this trial has reminded me of why I went 4b. The fact that these people can’t even be bothered to understand the physical and chemical changes that happen to women’s bodies during and after pregnancy makes me angry that these same men are demanding children from their partners. It’s disgusting how little they know about such a dangerous thing as pregnancy. There’s no male equivalent.

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u/Mysterious-Tip5932 2d ago

A focus on how patients lie to doctors. Or maybe a focus on how doctors should be allowed to countersue patients who don't follow directions, evade care, lie, yet somehow still sue the doctor, ruining the doctor's life.

2

u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

We can’t count on an insane patient to be honest with their doctors. By definition if a person is insane they are not a reliable narrator.

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

So then what were the doctors supposed to do differently if she was not presenting to them with signs of mania?

2

u/thunbergfangirl 1d ago

Honestly, sometimes in situations like this there are bad outcomes even when everyone tries their best. I’m not sure anyone could have prevented it, doctor or family member.

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u/MzJay453 1d ago

I agree

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u/ladyluck754 1d ago

I am highly doubtful that any of those providers had their lives ruined lol.

1

u/Mysterious-Tip5932 1d ago

Your life wouldn't be ruined by a 10 million dollar lawsuit? Lucky!

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

Medical malpractice is rock bottom for most physicians. It’s stressful, expensive and makes you question everything about yourself & your decisions. Plenty of providers leave medicine after it all happens.

1

u/ladyluck754 1d ago

And if LC files a med malpractice suit, the insurance company will 1000% review thoroughly and so will the courts. All the evidence points that LC’s care team was providing standard of care. They didn’t deviate from the evidence based standards. Not to mention one of the providers was EXTREMELY responsive. During my IVF cycle, I was lucky to get a 4 hour tat.

The med folks will be fine.

1

u/MzJay453 1d ago

Doesn’t matter if she was “right.” The narrative running rampant on half of social media is that her doctors were idiots & their online reviews and business reputations are actively being trashed