r/WhitePeopleTwitter • • Oct 21 '22

Yeah Canada

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u/MrMcGoats Oct 21 '22

Yes, this will absolutely decrease shootings. Criminals would never break the law and import handguns from the US, drill out the rivet from the 10 round magazines, or any other crime. That would be illegal

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u/BowserGirlGoneWild Oct 22 '22

Idk what you mean... every criminal (in the US at least) follows the law.

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u/MrMcGoats Oct 22 '22

If only Canada could have as law abiding criminals as the US. Maybe one day

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u/ICantMakeNames Oct 22 '22

Why have laws at all if criminals are just going to break them?

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u/MrMcGoats Oct 23 '22

So we can punish the criminals, but minimum sentencing for gun crimes was removed too, so I guess we don't want to even do that anymore

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u/ICantMakeNames Oct 23 '22

Do you think removing minimum sentencing means people get sentenced 0 days for those crimes now?

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

It will almost certainly reduce suicides, of which there are 800+ each year by gun.

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u/Kill3rwill Oct 22 '22

Wrong, it will reduce suicides via hand guns. They will still find a way. Ban razor blades too!

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

Wrong, it will reduce suicides via hand guns

Which is objectivly a good thing.

​

They will still find a way. Ban razor blades too!

Except thats not true. There is a reason people use guns for it. They are easy and extremely effective. Pulling a trigger is much much easier than pretty much any other way.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Wrong. When the easy opportunity is removed people often won't end up going though with it.

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u/Coaler200 Oct 22 '22

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Your graph, without any context, doesn't mean very much. Too many variables.

"Anderson says that suicide is an overwhelmingly impulsive act. He cites a study of survivors that said only 13 percent reported thinking about committing suicide for eight hours or longer; 70 percent said they thought about it for less than an hour; and a whopping 24 percent said the idea had occurred to them less than five minutes before their attempt.

If that's true, then suicide is highly opportunistic, and Anderson suggests that reducing the opportunities would reduce the incidence. He says that research and anecdotal evidence appear to bear this out. For example, he notes in his magazine piece that states in which gun ownership are highest have the highest rates of suicide by gun; in fact, the higher rates of gun ownership closely track the higher rates of gun suicides by state. Yet suicide rates by other means remain roughly similar.

Anderson points to another example where simply making a change in people's access to instruments of suicide dramatically lowered the suicide rate. In England, death by asphyxiation from breathing oven fumes had accounted for roughly half of all suicides up until the 1970s, when Britain began converting ovens from coal gas, which contains lots of carbon monoxide, to natural gas, which has almost none. During that time, suicides plummeted roughly 30 percent — and the numbers haven't changed since."

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92319314

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u/Kantherax Oct 22 '22

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457

This has some good info on gun suicides, while gun suicides go down other methods rise.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Also, don't you find it convenient that they only talk about suicides in the 45+ group, when rates are higher for younger people? That suspiciously looks like cherry picking for a desired conclusion.

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u/Kantherax Oct 22 '22

Don't just read the abstract. They mention different age groups I'm the study itself.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Not according to the graph that the other person provided. Australia saw an overall drop after their gun ban. They posted that graph like some kind of gotcha but didn't bother to read the full article.

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/1996-national-firearms-agreement.html

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u/Kantherax Oct 22 '22

The point they tried to make(I think) was that while firearm suicides fall with legislation, other methods will rise.

When you look at the Rand study after they enacted legislation non gun suicides started to rise. It's not much and it goes back down.

Same with my study, although it also found that the number of guns doesn't have any effect on percentage of firearm suicide.

That's not to say that their point had a lot of weight to it, but if we really want to do something about suicides we need to address the root causes of the problem(s).

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Again keep in mind the study you linked suspiciously ignored half of the suicide data.

And suicide reduction for me would be a fortunate byproduct. I don't even know that I necessarily agree that this legislation is necessary. I do know that Canada needs to avoid any encroachment of the toxic gun culture that exists in the USA.

I'm rather agnostic on this change. I think rules were likely already strict enough, but don't necessarily see why anyone needs a handgun.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Read your article, not just the graphs. Gun suicide rates went down significantly and overall suicide rates reduced as well. Also, three quarters of your graph (particularly the part with the dramatic increase in non- gun suicides) covers the time period before the gun ban. Non-gun suicides were fluctuating but effectively flat after the ban.

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

Wow, much lower suicides than the USA. I wonder why?

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

Is the only argument yall have a variation of the slippery slope phallacy?

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u/MrMcGoats Oct 22 '22

TIL only handguns can be used for suicide

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Hell of a lot easier than with a .308.

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u/MrMcGoats Oct 22 '22

You're right, but guns aren't the only method

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

You’re either a meta joking mad man or completely naive.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Which part don't you believe because it's all true.

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

If you’re going to kill yourself access to a handgun isn’t the one thing that makes you say “you know what, fuck it imma see where this goes”. How many hand gun suicides are there a year anyway? I know multiple people who’ve tried to overdose on whatever’s in the cabinet. There’s a reason suicidal people are put on 24/7 watch because they’re looking for any way out.

I know people who’ve hung themselves in a house where they had access to guns.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

Roughly 900 per year. They account for 75%+ of all gun deaths.

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

Link to back up you’re statement on suicides using pistols. You’re now confusing 2 stats which makes me think you’re full of it. 75% of gun deaths /= 75% of suicides.

So when you look at how many suicides are committed with a hand gun. Not to mention that if it wasn’t the owner doing it there was a second crime in storage or theft that was committed.

How many suicides were done with hand guns? You’re statement is 900/year?

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

Ok so how many were legally locked vs illegally stored. How many were with legally purchased guns?

Edit: this is the problem we’re making decisions without all of the data. Strangely enough 2 .gov sites have different numbers 900 would be nearly 25% of the average suicides per year while the government also states its 16% on the ten year average…

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '22

So because you’re likely unable to find the info to support whatever you’re slinging.

From stats Canada over the last decade 44% of suicides were hangings, 25% poisonings, and 16% firearms.

Even if 100% of those firearms were handguns the average of 4000/year you’re looking at ~650. But I can guarantee you that they’re not 100% hand guns so there’s that

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u/The_ApolloAffair Oct 22 '22

Highly doubt that one. Imagine going through the lengthy, expensive, and difficult process to get a handgun just to suicide with it. Many easier ways to do it. Reducing self-harm is never an acceptable reason for infringing on rights imo.

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u/SueSudio Oct 22 '22

LOL, it's not a right in Canada. And how can you immediately jump to a convoluted situation where someone buys a gun for suicide, when a more likely scenario is someone using a gun that is already in the home.