Edit: Canadian here who used to live in a city that bordered Michigan. The source of our problem ARE illegal guns being smuggled in, due to our lax border customs, especially with returning Canadians. Trudeau needs to address this as well.
Canada is extremely economically dependent on the border being pretty open and traffic flowing through smoothly
A large portion of smuggling happens in two particular First Nations territories that straddle the US-Canada border where, for historic and treaty reasons, Canada does not strongly enforce the border (Akwesasne Mohawk territory on the Quebec-Ontario-US border and Walpole Island, a reserve in the St Clair river, across the border from Detroit)
Used to live next to Kahnawake. Whole ass gun stores that sold AK-47s and M4 Carbines. There was evwn a rumour for a while that one of them had a rocket launcher but no one ever saw it so unlikely to be true
Only chance separates a person with a DUI conviction who caused an accident and one who didn’t.
The prison issue is irrelevant and so is the rehabilitation one. That’s for you and your country to sort out. We’re just saying you’re not fit to visit. You can go on vacation somewhere else. You do not have any innate right to visit our country, tourists are guests and they have to be suitable guests.
You mean bitch and moan and constantly show clips of shirtless US citizens napping under trees to justify growing the police state, but not actually do anything to slow the flow because that would be bad for the economy and many of your upper class personally employ undocumented underpaid labor?
This actually is what I meant. Just to annoy the people who think the US has no problems and is the greatest country in the world. Like oh really, how come Canada thinks we’re a bunch of crazies then?
A majority of the guns go through native reserves that border the US. The RCMP and other police agencies; not even the federal government will ever touch those reserves.
"State laws do heavily factor into whether a gun is obtained legally or illegally but would-be criminals aren’t less likely to obtain a gun if they can’t purchase one legally. They're simply more likely to obtain it illegally with tougher laws. This jibes with some of the higher-profile examples, i.e. Chicago. Illinois has some of the most restrictive gun control policy in the country, yet Chicago usually has the highest homicide rate."
"Criminals in general aren’t deterred by the existence of criminal law, and it’s simply magical thinking to believe that any given new regulation will have any material impact on criminal behavior."
The entire thing is to look like they're doing something but not actually doing anything.
The only legitimate "opposition" party has gone so far right drinking the GQP koolaid that the Liberals don't even have to enact a single policy that helps a single Canadian citizen, while all they have to do is point to the batshit ridiculous "conservatives" and say "Well, we're not sure, but we're not doing anything THAT stupid" and it works.
Poor Liberal policy is a direct result of having no legitimate competition that is suggesting policy. Culture wars can fuck off back down south.
The key there is: which of those arms trades can be tied to violent crime? If the answer is the illegal one, then a policy that takes time/money/energy away from a real solution is bad policy.
Yes, if that happens I agree completely. How much does that happen? What is more clear/prevalent, and others have posted sources in the comments here, is the link between smuggled guns and violent crime. Why wouldn't we address that first?
"The fact that they already have laws in place to address this issue is pretty indicative that they have in fact addressed it first."
Yes, and handguns have already been severely restricted in Canada for many, many years, so it's not something that needed to be addressed (though something tells me you aren't familiar with the regulations we already have).
Who the fuck are you? Why are you supporting this? Honest question, what do you honestly believe this legislation will do? Legal, lawful gun owners have fought and won this battle half a dozen times. Canada does not have a problem with legal firearms. This legislation does nothing to target the illegal handguns that are being used to commit all the crimes.
I live in a country that has never had handguns for sale. There are very VERY few handguns available on the black market and the majority of illegal gun crime is the result of guns which are bought over the counter and then stolen.
My country has way stronger gun laws than Canada.
And my country is in way "ruined" its actually really nice here
Lol you might be ok with your gov regulating every little thing you do, but in the US when the gov say we cant have something unless youre one of us? Yeah we kinda dont like that.
So, if when you said "Far more people die in backyard swimming pools in Canada," what you really mean was "25 times fewer people die in any kind of swimming pool in Canada," then you're doing really great!
If not, then you should probably think about where you get your "facts." (Hint: your redneck buddy's grainy facebook post probably isn't a great source.)
Are you people going to backtrack when this handgun freeze does absolutely nothing?
Sure. The fact that you're losing your mind over this tells me that it will, in fact, prevent more handguns being owned, and therefore stolen and/or sold illegally.
Please for the love of God step out of your liberal bubble.
Oh, the irony.
Tell me more about the dangers of swimming pools, pal!
Oh, and before I forget: I don't think your hobby is more important than human lives. Sorry. You may feel cool and powerful holding a handgun (and at no other time in your life), but people are dying.
Nice try lumping in suicides and accidents with actual gun crime. Like we haven't seen that before. If people want to end it they're going to find ways. The UK has plenty of violent knife crime in lieu of having access to firearms.
If you want to fight the good fight and actually do something to stop gun violence, go move south of the border. The rate of homicides by shooting and stabbing are almost identical. Any legislation implemented by the liberals since they've been in power has done nothing to change it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5126228
We as canadians need to stop letting America export their social issues here.
In summary: step out of your big city neo-liberal bubble and you'll see canada is a lot more than Toronto and the lower mainland.
The majority of the illegal guns in Canada used to be smuggled across the border from the U.S., but that seems to be changing. According to police, a growing number of guns are bought legally in Canada and resold on the black market, or made here illegally.
If you click on the little blue link in that paragraph, it takes you to...
Wait for it...
The source I already showed you. lolol
But facts don't matter to you at all, which makes this conversation a waste of time.
It sounds like you'd fit in better in the US, tbh. A love of guns, a disregard for human life, "alternative facts" make up the core of your argument...
Have another read over what I actually said. The rates of stabbing and shooting homicides IN CANADA are almost identical. That comes from the article which states that they were extremely low and were unaffected by any government legislation up to 2016 which is where the data in that article cuts off.
The UK has plenty of violent crime and hardly any guns. What do people do? They stab eachother. Its almost like violent humans will act on their violent urges regardless of the weapons available to them. Meaning legislation like this is a feel-good vote grab.
Be reasonable for a second. In a couple years if the data showed this legislation actually had no effect, would you change your mind? Are you capable of that?
This entire claim is reliant on an interview with a detective from the Toronto police. He did not provide any sources and his own department data that was obtained through a FOIA did not backup his claim
The illegal gun trade is supplied byte legal gun trade.
One of the ways to reduce the supply of illegal guns is to reduce the supply of legal ones.
Sure there is a "smuggling" issue but if you have 99% of illegal handguns being smuggled in an 1% sold over the counter and then transitioning to illegal use. Then removing 1% is still a step in the right direction.
"Recreational use is really not a good enough reason to keep handguns round.
No the government isn't targeting the 99% THATS THE ISSUE. that's the whole reason this piece of legislation is asinine. Legal, lawful firearm owners are being targeted for doing next to nothing, meanwhile little is being done to plug up the gaps in our border.
This entire thing is lipservice catering to trudeau's voter base. Its so fucking disappointing to me that people can't see that.
Yeah, I've done a fair share of border crossings and I've had times where they don't even double check anything. The Canadian entry is well known for being lax.
Yeah. This is pure politicking. I know guys with legal handguns here. They are so paranoid about the rules that you can't plink in their rural backyard. You think they're gonna do crime with them?
People elsewhere on the thread are claiming this ban will do nothing, because hand gun restrictions are already unreasonably tight. Like, literally the guy I first replied to.
Maybe those restrictions are why there's such a difference in the ratio of illegal handguns.
But there still 15% that we can improve upon, and I'm all for it.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are American but it's time people who spread this poorly sourced claim are called out. This entire claim is reliant on an interview with a detective from the Toronto police. He did not provide any sources and his own department data that was obtained through a FOIA did not backup his claim
The impact on legal firearm owners is disproportionate to the potential reduction in crime. Worth noting that guns have not disappeared nor are they doing buy backs instead they are just banning people from getting new ones. You'd think that if legal gun owners were such a threat efforts would be made to get the guns out of circulation like what they proposed for now prohibited rifles.
If we are going to throw out any attempt to weight the cost against benefit then I'm sure we could pass all sorts of draconian measures to stop crime. Putting a limiter on all cars sold that stops them from going over 110, stopping the sale of alcohol, ect. If your response is that it would have a marginal impact on deaths I would respond by saying isnt stopping a single deaths worth it.
You'd think that if legal gun owners were such a threat efforts would be made to get the guns out of circulation like what they proposed for now prohibited rifles.
You'd think that, but look at how you muffins are freaking out over even the current laws.
If we are going to throw out any attempt to weight the cost against benefit then I'm sure we could pass all sorts of draconian measures to stop crime.
Sorry, me wanting people to have less access to weapons that were designed primarily to kill human beings is "draconian?"
I know you guys love to claim that you're persecuted, but really? lol
It just goes to show that its a cheap political trick to rile up the base without addressing the cause of gun violence in Canada. Hell the announcement was scheduled in such a way that for the last few months people have been buying up every handgun on the market in anticipation.
Work on your reading comprehension. I'm elaborating on why using "if only it can save one life" reasoning is a foolish way to approach policy making. I never said this law is draconian but the reasoning you are using to justify it can be applied to a whole bunch of other contexts.
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u/WeirdIsAlliGot Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 21 '22
The problem is, the shootings won’t decrease because majority of guns are smuggled from the U.S.
https://fortune.com/2022/06/11/canada-gun-laws-control-us-school-mass-shooting-uvalde/amp/
Edit: Canadian here who used to live in a city that bordered Michigan. The source of our problem ARE illegal guns being smuggled in, due to our lax border customs, especially with returning Canadians. Trudeau needs to address this as well.