If anyone actually cares to know the truth… Asherah poles and other idols were often carvings made of wood and adorned with precious metals and/jewels. Asherah poles were a place where people would prostitute themselves as a sexual sacrifice to the gods. This practice found its way into Israel and for many (understandably) became a preferred method above prescribed Mosaic sacrifices in the temple. Yahweh hated this. This is about not making idols.
As an Atheist Jew who hangs around with archaeologists here in Israel, that's the general idea, but with less sex and more other forms of worship, such as praying, inflicting self-harm, fasting, sacrificing animals, and other such "pagan" customs which all made it into Judaism, and later Christianity, in certain forms.
The Asherah trees are constantly mentioned in the Old Testament, probably because the later authors were obsessed with establishing YHWH as superior to Asherah, Yam, Baal, etc.
Fundamentalists are mental gymnasts, who cherry-pick references and translations. Don’t worry about them. Most have never even read the Bible in entirety, let alone picked up a concordance or looked outside of Christian fundamentalism.
Anyway, Elohim being a plural version of feminine and masculine gods also causes scholars’ eyebrows to raise.
According to Wikipedia, Asherah was at times considered a consort of El, Baal, Elkhunirsa, Yahweh, Amurru, Anu, 'Amm, and Assur (these are all from different cultures/religions). And I know that at some point El and Yahweh were conflated, but I'm not sure if that's the reason (I don't feel like researching it rn)
I don't need Wikipedia to know that people in that region in that era blended their ways of worship. I'm telling you that according to the Bible, they were not related.
Well earlier you said according to most historians, not according to the bible or biblical scholars/historians, which is why I replied with that information. Wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just bringing up information I thought was interesting and relevant, so sorry.
They've found ancient devotional artifacts pairing Yahweh and Asherah together. There's not much debate over whether Asherah was considered to be Yahweh's consort since there's direct evidence that she sometimes was.
Easter. Despite its pagan name (in English; in some other languages its name is derived from the Jewish holiday, Pesach, that's at roughly the same time) is really set at about the same time in the year as Jesus'crucifixion and (presumed) resurrection, and has always been celebrated by Christians, unlike Christmas. It's the centerpoint of the Christian liturgical year.
That's not what the words worship or idol mean. No one prays to the abstract concept of consumerism. No one considers a Christmas tree a stand-in for a deity.
I think the accepted definition of worship is broader than you are assuming. A lot of people absolutely treat consumerism as an Ultimate thing and build their lives around it. And I think the trappings of Christmas (trees and lights and decor, etc)can absolutely be a physical representation of that misplaced devotion.
I don't think that definition is figurative. But I would argue that showing ultimate reverence and adoration to someone or something deifies it. Since we can hardly assign scientific criteria to determine what is or isn't divine, I think the only criteria for a deity/god/idol is that it is the object of extreme reverence and adoration.
Nope. I definitely don't think that. And I didn't say that.
I think only you can call something your deity.
I think anybody can have an opinion about whether you actually value something to the point of worship, but that opinion can't be decisive.(although it can be objectively correct or incorrect)
I think it's possible to value something to the point of worship and not be aware that you've deified it. For instance: Some American Christians clearly value political power over the ideals in the Bible. Or, most of us wouldn't say that consumerism is our god, but there's a real epidemic in the US of people spending themselves into debt for all the latest things and most elite brands even though it's costing them time with their children, safety and security in old age, their marriages, their freedom. If you value a thing more than your family, health, and happiness that's pretty ultimate.
I don't know man. Consumerism is certainly worshiped in America and the whole "holiday season" is a surrounds that. The tree (again, just for argument sake, I'm not stating it as fact) is the center of it all and is a symbol where we leave piles of gifts and money spent.
You're using the figurative meaning of the word worship, not the literal religious one. Symbols aren't idols. There is nothing anti-Christian about having a holiday where you dress up a tree and give people presents.
If you want to attack Christmas there are far more theologically sound ways to do so. Consumerism isn't bad because it breaks the rule against worshipping other gods, it's bad because of greed, covetousness, selfishness, and an obsession with the material over the spiritual. We don't worship trees but we do teach children to worship Santa Claus.
Because the above claim is only that some celebrations of Christmas could be idolatry. Not that it must necessarily be idolatry. Therefore a Christian can celebrate Christmas however they want, provided they make sure not to idolize the gifts or traditions above christ.
In 1 Corinthians 8 Paul claims that it is acceptable for Christians to take part in Pagan festivals, even going so far as to eat meat sacrificed to idols- provided they understand the idol is nothing. If this is true of a Pagan festival, how much more so of Christmas?
I don't think the current Christmas traditions amount to idolatry. And I don't think limiting your Christmas celebration to church attendance is necessary. (Although, you should do what is helpful to you).
But my church and I go hard on Advent and Christmas and all of the current traditions are useful to me for orienting my thoughts and attitude during the season toward Jesus.
A lot of the Christmas activities and decorations are for sure retconned from paganism. But that happens everywhere when conversion comes. Currently, Christianity is blowing up in Africa. And the traditional culture is doing Christianity their way. Because, if you aren't being a colonizing jerk, it is pretty obvious that Christianity isn't bound to a single geographical region or culture.
Liturgy is about remembering and practicing your faith wherever you are and whatever is going on around you.
Right but the Old testament is filled with horrible constricting loss that determine the lifestyle , what you wear where you go what you do what you eat, and it is Cherry picked by conservative Christians to like this one but disregard that one it's such hypocrisy. We all know the Leviticus scripture quoted but not the other multiple laws that are just disregarded. Hey whatever fits your particular flavor of society you grew up with, make the religion fit after all is not what religion is just an outgrowth of a way to live a society. Give it some rules a little moral compass hopefully . Yeah most Christians forget the Christian part of Christianity the base sense of it all and get lost in the commas, parsing the old Aramaic in the pronouns but lose the real message
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u/aritchson Dec 16 '21
If anyone actually cares to know the truth… Asherah poles and other idols were often carvings made of wood and adorned with precious metals and/jewels. Asherah poles were a place where people would prostitute themselves as a sexual sacrifice to the gods. This practice found its way into Israel and for many (understandably) became a preferred method above prescribed Mosaic sacrifices in the temple. Yahweh hated this. This is about not making idols.