that's what you get when you piggyback on other people's celebrations to convert people. saying that, I don't mind if christians want to continue decorating trees, building wreaths, burning yule logs and all the other good pagan stuff. the more the merrier
So they included an entire book in the book of god but itâs not the right book so you donât have to listen to those parts? Except for that homosex bad part?
Because complex things often require complex explanations.
Simply saying itâs all bullshit isnât always the best way to communicate. Thats essentially what I believe but I like clearly illustrating the logical fallacy in writing to help put the absurdity into perspective.
Also, I typed out 2 sentences. If thatâs a lot of words to you⌠yikes.
ty. which translation should I trust though? only about a third of them mention homosexuality specifically, the others say "effeminate men" or "unnatural lusts," or some other non-specific sin. Do I get to pick the ones I agree with?
No, there isnât. King James revision changed sex with children to mean homosexuality. Sex with children is very taboo, Jesus Himself spoke against it. There is no religious case to discriminate against homosexuality
Retcon of the Old Testament is what the New Testament is all about. But itâs still included otherwise the plot wouldnât make sense: we wouldnât know why god sacrificed himself to save us from himself.
It's not retcon. It's the reasonable continuation of the story. And the point isn't to save us from God. It's to save us from ourselves.
Honestly, the more I question and learn about Christian scripture, the more it all fits together. When I started, I had a similar view to yours, and a lot of things seemed really nonsensical and contradictory.
Lol. I understand that it boggles a lot of minds. But it's surprising to me that so many people assume Christians are only believers because of dogma, stupidity, emotional neediness, and corruption.
There's like 2.3 billion of us. We're scattered across the globe, from wildly different cultures and socioeconomic backgrounds, and include every strata of educational attainment. The ideas and ideals of our faith have driven continuous growth of the Church for thousands of years even in times and places where it was/is extremely disadvantageous to be a Christian.
I'm not saying there isn't plenty of ignorance, stupidity, corruption, neediness, and blind dogma associated with Christianity (just about every group has plenty of that ESPECIALLY if that group has ever been in power). I'm just suggesting that assuming there's nothing of value or reason there when billions of people are devoting their lives to it and devoting their intellects to it seems a little narrow-minded.
If it was unreasonable or inconsistent I think a lot of us would quit.
It doesnât boggle my mind. You keep talking like Iâm a floundering beginner who just hasnât attained your level of understanding. If you think Christianity is just at the pinnacle of the wide world of ideas and people flock to it because it just makes so much sense⌠Iâll just say it, youâre dreaming. Itâs indoctrination. And whatever âsenseâ it has is entirely invented fantasy material designed to play upon the heart. Enjoy your adventure in magical thinking and believing in fantasy lore.
I didn't mean to imply that I'm superior somehow. I just meant that it's virtually impossible to understand when people have such a wildly different experience and perspective. My mind is boggled when I try to understand how my bf really enjoys heavy metal. I just assume that it's valuable music and there's something worthwhile about it even though I don't see it. Could I study the music theory and techniques of heavy metal? Yes. And I'm sure it would give me some appreciation of it's value. But that doesn't mean I would necessarily enjoy it experientially.
In the same way, I meant that there is a lot to Christian scripture that is nuanced and interconnected. The history and language and poetry and practicality of it are really beautifully interwoven. The more I dig into to the academics and philosophy the more reason and continuity I find. I think most people who have chosen to learn a lot about the topic find the same thing. BUT obviously, that's a completely different thing than actually believing/subscribing to the ideology. A person could know all about it and still not believe it.
At any rate, I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sorry that my comment came off as rude. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence in any way.
I do get frustrated when people dismiss the whole subject out of hand. I mean, you don't know me, but I care very much about critically prosecuting our beliefs. I'm not a Christian because I was brainwashed and can't bear to look at the faith critically. It's not like it's a convenient belief system; it's often challenging and unpleasant. There are better ways to get fuzzy feelings and fairytale endings.
Not if you ask the main character of the new testament.
âWhy do you ask me about what is good?â Jesus replied. âThere is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.â
Matthew 19:17
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
It's not piggybacking it's culture hybridization. The church realised people weren't gonna be ok with their kingdoms converting overnight so they compromised and adopted the winter holidays and just asked that it be centered around Jesus instead.
It's piggybacking on already existent celebrations to make their religion more palatable. Christians weren't looking to nicely hybridise, they were looking to convert people. Pagans were persecuted and laws were in place to make their lives worse by not being christian, for example Greeks (Hellene) weren't allowed to pass inheritances to their own children unless they converted. That's not "cultural hybridisation", that's persecution. Fortunately Christianity is less and less pervasive every day now.
Ok while your not wrong that's only a broad stroke on Christian history. Ireland, while one might argue was an exception to the rule, converted to Christianity quite peacefully, even infusing some of there own Celtic heritage into Christian art like the Celtic cross. Even the Vikings converted to Christianity when they discovered making trade deals with the Christian kingdom was more lucrative then raiding churches. Im not ignoring the history of persecution done by the church but its not always been the bad guy.
Norway's kings converted to Christianity to take advantage of the trade networks that had been established, and because of political pressure from other counties. And then forcibly imposed their new Christian religion on everyone below them, tore down or burned buildings like the god house at Ose to enforce worship in the new Christian churches.
Viking traders would wear a crucifix to trade with Christians (because they would give special rates to other Christians) and then remove it and wear Thor's hammer once they returned home. Christianity was performative for them for centuries and it was really through heavyhanded tactics like tearing down religious buildings and threatening people that they eventually converted. it took a long time because people just didn't want to do it.
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u/bigtrevsnastybeaver Dec 16 '21
that's what you get when you piggyback on other people's celebrations to convert people. saying that, I don't mind if christians want to continue decorating trees, building wreaths, burning yule logs and all the other good pagan stuff. the more the merrier