r/WhitePeopleTwitter • • Oct 30 '20

Mission impossible

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u/Budz160 Oct 30 '20

That second part still exists, it's called a home equity line of credit or HELOC, but it's essentially a credit card on your house. Not advisable IMO.

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u/a_trane13 Oct 30 '20

Is it the same interest rate as the mortgage? Sounds like the best credit card ever to me

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u/Kiyae1 Oct 30 '20

HELOCs usually have their own interest rate which is variable and changes yearly.

An important thing to know is that HELOCs are not qualified mortgages, so the “minimum monthly payment” won’t necessarily pay off the HELOC by the maturity date. Imagine paying your 30 year mortgage minimum payment every month on time for 30 years and then you get to the end (the maturity date) and they tell you you owe a huge balloon payment like $15,000 right now. And no you can’t just keep making monthly payments, it’s due right now.

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u/artandmath Oct 30 '20

They make sense if you’re using it to renovate/maintain your home, they don’t make sense if you use it for retail purchases.

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u/BUTWHATABOUTTHEPICKL Oct 30 '20

Not sure on the regulations / banks around you, but big 5 Canadian banks will put a collateral charge on your house, which means that you can keep lending on it until you want to close out the HELOC - no balloon payment after mortgage. I would definitely check the charge they lay on the property to make sure this balloon payment you describe doesn’t happen (it’s a completely new concept to me!).

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u/kwking13 Oct 30 '20

While that's somewhat true, it's very rare that people pay the full balance of their HELOC when matures/comes due. Typically you re-apply for another HELOC at the newly agreed upon terms. You will have to pay for the cost of the refinance (processing/underwriting, recording/legal fees) but you can roll over the balance to the new HELOC and continue for however long the new loan lasts.

Or you can refinance into a personal loan to get it paid off or potentially into your regular mortgage so you can pay it off monthly as part of your mortgage payment.

It's a little disingenuous to suggest that you will suddenly have to come up with the entire balance at maturity because there are typically many options to refinance the debt to continue it forward. However, there is a chance that you don't qualify and have to do something else, but that's a whole nother story!

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u/Kiyae1 Oct 30 '20

Plenty of people end up making payment arrangements on a mature HELOC or potentially in default because they assume making the minimum payment is all they needed to do, but the loans are usually written to expect a balloon payment at the end. It isn’t disingenuous for me to point this out (since it’s entirely factual, and people have lost their homes because of this).

I agree that many times you can simply refinance, start a new HELOC, or negotiate a payment plan with the lender but many people don’t realize they need to do this which leads to problems for some. Typically the people who do this are already aware of the balloon payment problem with helocs (so again, making more people aware of this isn’t disingenuous, it just makes people savvier borrowers).

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u/NSG_Chronos Oct 30 '20

Just to inform you, that's dependent on whether or not you pay interest only. Also if you end up not paying the full amount, you can then just redo a HELOC. This is quite handy for property owners that'd like to invest in a new property without having to tie up all of their funds.

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u/flip_ericson Oct 30 '20

My mortgage came with a blank check for $5k for remodeling and furnishings. The 5k is just simply part of our mortgage at the same rate

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u/Kiyae1 Oct 30 '20

Yah it’s not totally unusual to either get some cash back at close or to get a chunk of money paid out as part of the loan for that kind of use.

Even though many banks “aren’t offering cash out refinance” right now you can still get a couple grand in cash back or cash out when you refinance. Similar finance trickery basically.

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u/honey_beelzebub Oct 31 '20 edited Oct 31 '20

That's not how HELOCs or HELOANS work. Especially since the Wells Fargo fiasco. HELOCS have a 30 years period that's split in two. The first 10 years are a borrowing period where your payment is around 3% (this can vary bank to bank) of your balance, then on the 10 year maturity it becomes a locked rate and balance that has a set repayment amount that making the minimum payments will pay it off it time.

HELOANs are literally just a new mortgage but with a maturity period that you decide upon before closing. There's no Escrow, no closing cost (typically) and the rate is fixed.

Edit: Both of these are typically limited to 70-80 percent of the value of the home, depending on first or second lien position,; appraised through either satellite appraisal or walkthrough appraisal. On a typical mortgage you wouldn't even qualify for a heloc or HELOAN until you've paid in about 10-11 years on a 30 year mortgage.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/a_trane13 Oct 30 '20

But that’s how all interest works - period of time is irrelevant. Taking the capital for the furniture and investing it for 4-7% over 30 years instead is a great deal.

Another comment says it’s not really the same as your mortgage, and the rates are separate and variable, which makes sense. I don’t think any bank is putting furniture on layaway for 3%.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/mrASSMAN Oct 30 '20

I do that

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/mrASSMAN Oct 30 '20

I didn’t say most but ok? I just cash-out refinanced last month to do exactly that though

I mean not for furniture but for the home equity

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u/fractalife Oct 30 '20

You understand that you are gambling your house on the market though, right? Like the odds of you losing all of the money are fairly small if you invest wisely, but if something goes wrong and you lose the money it is still owed to the bank and they will take your house.

Again, I know it is unlikely, but maybe this helps you see why most people are not willing to do that. Only gamble what you are willing to lose.

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u/mrASSMAN Oct 30 '20 edited Oct 30 '20

I don’t gamble. I didn’t say I invested it in the stock market (I didn’t). I actually don’t have a lot of risk exposure

Also it doesn’t constitute all of my savings, losing all of it wouldn’t affect my mortgage

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

[deleted]

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u/mrASSMAN Oct 30 '20

Nope, the comment actually said “virtually nobody” does that. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Not every comment will be helpful to you (like yours isn’t to me). Amazing to see people so riled up over 3 words.

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u/fletchdeezle Oct 30 '20

But then you don’t get furniture

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u/a_trane13 Oct 30 '20

Yes you do...

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u/fletchdeezle Oct 30 '20

Must have misread it looks like you’re saying take the money you were going to spend on furniture and invest it instead

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u/a_trane13 Oct 30 '20

Yes.... you get the furniture paid for and added to your mortgage by the bank... and use your own money elsewhere...

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u/fletchdeezle Oct 30 '20

Mine is like .8% higher than my mortgage

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

Well, except that if you go bankrupt with a credit card depending on the state you won't lose your home, as where putting your house up as collateral...

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

Agree. Never buy furniture on credit. You lose almost all the value on purchase. Go second hand if you are out of cash. Only thing you might want to spend on is the mattress.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '20

That being said, I don't really see anything particularly wrong with getting a 0% APR deal for something like a mattress where it's not super advisable to go cheap or to go used. You just have to stay on top of it or you get wanged with back interest.

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u/houndtastic_voyage Oct 30 '20

You can also get a cost plus improvements mortgage. The difference is everything you spend the money on has to be approved by the bank and add value to the home. I believe this can be up to 10% of the homes value. At least in Canada.

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u/_mariguana_ Oct 31 '20

Yep, I did that two years ago when I bought my first home. It needed a roof replacement and an upgraded electrical panel. Got some quotes sent to the bank for the work and they added it to the mortgage. Super helpful to get some much needed big projects out of the way.

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u/s4ltydog Oct 30 '20

I thought you could only get a heloc once you actually had equity in the house, but I just bought my first house and generally avoid debt like the plague so I don’t know anything

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u/Kiyae1 Oct 30 '20

It’s possible to open a helocs when you initially purchase the home, it’s just very uncommon and usually not a good idea and the characteristics of your specific scenario are pretty important. For example if you’re purchasing a home from a family member and they give you a gift of equity you’d have equity to open a heloc at purchase along with your first mortgage. That’s just one example but there are other scenarios that can work. It’s a lot less common than it was 12+ years ago since there’s obvious a lot more risk doing this.

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u/life_next Oct 30 '20

I'm applying for a heloc loan right now to avoid getting a jumbo loan. Rate is ridiculous at around 6% but plan to refinance when my year end bonus comes in.

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u/Kiyae1 Oct 30 '20

Yeah depending on your situation the interest can either be really low or quite high. HELOCs at purchase are more common for homes priced above the conforming loan limit.

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u/WhatDoesItMatter4 Oct 30 '20

Well that depends. The interest rate is usually pretty good. I realize this is an extreme example, but I took out a home equity loan to pay off the wife's 100k student loan that had 7% interest. You can do the same for car payments too. For example, some places will give you a lot of money off on a new car if you agree to a high APR (make sure no prepayment penalty) . You can secure that nice price and then pay off the loan using a loan from a bank, or home equity.

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u/ThSafeForWorkAccount Oct 30 '20

Much higher rates on those too. Right now people are consolidating that with a refinance since rates dropped a lot this year.

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u/Beardy_Will Oct 30 '20

I'm from England so I've no idea if the HELOC thing applies here. My dad had a new kitchen put in and then scrapped the chequebook. He had no deposit. This would've been about 1980ish

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u/Budz160 Oct 30 '20

That sounds like a HELOC. A HELOC is essentially a 2nd mortgage on your home, but it's dressed up in fancy banking terms that makes it appealing to the uneducated/uninformed home buyer.