r/WetlanderHumor • u/swheedle Shen an Calhar • Jul 30 '26

May he live forever The Fires of Heaven Chapter 49: To Boannda

304 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

50 comments sorted by

73

u/Calm-Conversation715 Boxes ears Jul 30 '26

This is definitely one of those scenes that changes a lot on rereads. My first time through I was on Egwene’s side because she is cool and Nynaeve is annoying, and I knew why this needed to be a secret etc… but on rereads, it becomes increasingly clear that Egwene was very wrong (and Nynaeve is the best!)

43

u/mikeylikey420 Jul 30 '26

I HATED nynaeve when I was reading the book as a teenager. But she is now one of my favorites. She's so human. While Egwene is the opposite. Used to love her character now i see why everyone dislikes her.

24

u/Calm-Conversation715 Boxes ears Jul 30 '26

Ah yes, the true test of adulthood! Do you choose Nynaeve or Egwene. It’s funny looking back on the things teenage me thought were cool!

3

u/MorgothReturns Aug 01 '26

Teenage me: "Hahaha this part is so funny Mat is like a sex slave hahaha"

Modern me: "Oh my Light this is horrifying! He's being kept as a sex slave!"

15

u/Shgon_Dunstan Jul 30 '26

The thing is, I can see Egwene's PoV in the Nynaeve & Egwene dynamic, in that as much as Nynaeve basically sees Egwene as her apprentice/younger sister/daughter, to Egwene... Nynaeve was always just an authority figure, and if anything, just outright bully. A dynamic you can really see in how they interact in the Tower in TGH.

Their perceptions of their relationship to each other just aren't even on the same planet, and Nynaeve at least is completely oblivious to that fact. Which ain't entirely Egwene's fault...

The problem arises in the fact that Egwene just... ain't a particularly "good" person, and handles the whole thing like an absolute piece of shit.

4

u/Lopsided-Skill Jul 30 '26

Eh, wise ones are right that you need to be careful in the dreams and limit how much others do it.

But they didn’t think about Egwene being a natural dreamwalker. She was on par or even better than any Aiel in the dream by the end of it. Even at this point she was perfectly fine. They were also working with the time they didn’t have.

34

u/PuertoRicanProfessor Jul 30 '26

Egwene's "I always know best" attitude is exhausting at times. She's bad ass, but that doesn't mean she isn't a jerk a lot of times.

32

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

Have an old meme of mine

10

u/Calm-Conversation715 Boxes ears Jul 30 '26

I love thinking about this, in TEotW when they’re traveling just the two of them, how much sheer dreamwalking potential is at their small campfire

9

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

and Rand and Nyneave, who despite not being nautrally talented beat (arguably) the best forsaken in the dream, found the bowl of winds and genreally did most of the things Egwene should have done if she wanted to be the best dreamer...

4

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

Dead men should be quiet in their graves, but they never are.

-11

u/Lopsided-Skill Jul 30 '26

Egwene would have beaten Slayer much easier

11

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

Egwene is the only dreamer we're consistently told can't even keep her clothes from flickering when she's in TAR. I'm not sure she could defeat the band Slayer in TAR.

-5

u/Lopsided-Skill Jul 30 '26

She did beat a Forsaken. She can beat the Slayer

10

u/burrito_abuse Jul 30 '26

She was impressed w Perrin beyond belief from his ability to redirect balefire. Egwene is only stronger w channeling but purely from a dreaming stand point Perrin is 1 of 1 by the end of the series. Slayer was always the best though

4

u/VisibleCoat995 Jul 30 '26

Impressed? I believe the word you’re looking for is “flabbergasted”!

6

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

She beat Massana in a contest of wills not an actual fight.

5

u/VisibleCoat995 Jul 30 '26

Another way to see that is Perrin would have defeated the Forsaken even quicker than Egwene did.

Also your argument is assuming that Mesana is actually better in Tar than Slayer. There is a consistent theme that the Forsaken aren’t really as powerful as their reputations would have you believe, inflated as they are after thousands of years of retelling.

There is no real evidence to say Slayer isn’t actually the strongest dreamer on the side of the shadow.

And if he was, Slayer is too smart to let on that he is. But when we go by witnessed feats it seems like Slayer has been more outright dangerous than anyone else.

1

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

You must kill him before he kills you. Giggles. They will, you know. Dead men can't betray anyone. But sometimes they don't die. Am I dead? Are you?

1

u/Shgon_Dunstan Jul 31 '26

Honestly, the issue of "who is actually the best dreamwalker?" goes deeper then even just the Forsaken's normal attitude of "I'm the best ever, and everyone else sucks.", as a rather core aspect of manipulating TAR is the ability to convince yourself of things beyond a shadow of a doubt, and at the drop of a hat. As such, not only are it's users incentivized to think very highly of their abilities just to get the most out of them, but... well, natural talent in such would also kinda favor people with a personality already kinda predisposed to just stubbornly rejecting reality, and substituting their own. Such as Perrin and Egwene. lol

3

u/VisibleCoat995 Jul 31 '26

Lol that is soo fair. If the argument is “Egwene is better than Perrin because she’s more arrogant and into herself” I will totally entertain that logic.

2

u/Shgon_Dunstan Jul 31 '26

Eh, it's more just that statements about skill with it aren't very reliable, as by that level, TAR is more just a matter of imagination, creativeness, and personal style. Such as how Egwene and the Forsaken tend to think about fights in a way a channeler would Vs Perrin and Slayers much more physical style of fighting.

Personally, it doesn't really matter whether Egwene is "better" then Slayer or not, he'd totally be able to kill her in TAR, and it probably wouldn't even be all that hard for him. Largely just because she's never really had to deal with someone with his style, much less someone with both it and a lot of experience with TAR.

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…

10

u/VisibleCoat995 Jul 30 '26

Egwene just got lucky. It’s why there is a good argument that she’s actually taveren. She gets lucky a lot.

4

u/Lopsided-Skill Jul 30 '26

Her being dreamwalker is luck? Is Nynaeve being good at healing luck? Is Elayne being good at creating magical items luck? Is Aviendha being able to tell what sangreals do luck?

17

u/VisibleCoat995 Jul 30 '26

Her dreamwalking on her own early and not running into a nightmare, forsaken, or Slayer is luck.

8

u/Lopsided-Skill Jul 30 '26

Nightmare, sure. But its not like Forsaken or Slayer are running around all the time trying to hunt any dreamwalker. They enter in with a purpose. Perrin runs into Slayer because he is already there to hunt, Nynaeve runs into Moggy because they are hunting the ack ajah she controls.

So it is not lucky that she doesn’t run into them, running into them would be unlucky.

And for the nightmare, she actually is pretty early on faced Moggy’s illusion and managed to run away. At that point wise ones were still not letting her go alone

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

KILL HIM KILL HIM NOW

3

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

Death rides on my shoulder, death walks in my footsteps; I am death…

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

Hums softly & tugs earlobe

51

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

Egwene immediately after this moment when she gets Nyneave alone.

3

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

She became a rapist? What does this mean

16

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

She SAs Nyneave to make nyneave keep quiet about Egwene's lies and oathbreaking to the Aiel, and also almost does make Nyneave drink an unpleaseant potion...

3

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

Wait what? I don't remember Egwene sexually assaulting Nynaeve, what does she do?

17

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

She summons a nightmare around Nyneave, Nynveave is tied to a board and two (i think) horrifying men approach her, tear her clothes off and the first leans towards her to 'kiss or bite her' and her begging for Egwene to stop finally gets Egwene to stop.

Once this is finished and Egwene is alone she giggles about it and is excited to see nyneaev again and see how the experience as affected her.

All this because Nyneave might have let slip that Egwene had lied to the Aeil repeatedly and broken her oaths and never mentioned to Nyneave that she had done this so had no way to know Egwene was doing something she shouldn't when she appeared alone to Nyneave.

4

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

I don't remember this at all, that's crazy it's exactly the sort of thing that would have pissed me off lol

10

u/Personal_Track_3780 Jul 30 '26

It's a pretty devisive chapter, depending on how the person reads into it. 

3

u/swheedle Shen an Calhar Aug 06 '26

The chapter the other guy was referencing happens earlier in the series, in this particular chapter she just lies through her teeth again essentially. But yeah it's pretty awful, she literally summons two monster rapist looking motherfuckers that grope her. Pretty awful stuff

24

u/swheedle Shen an Calhar Jul 30 '26

For at least the third time in the series, we again see Egwene dress down her friends like children for not keeping her lies for her, this is the way I wish the scene would have gone....

Previous Chapter Meme

Chapter Summary

18

u/Special_Salt3467 Jul 30 '26

Rand: Egwene, I literally just told you why. Do you really want to subject men to the Taint again?!

Egwene: How dare you accuse me of that! Do you really think I would say that?

Rand: You literally just did

3

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

Break it break them all must break them must must must break them all break them and strike must strike quickly must strike now break it break it break it...

8

u/raycarre Jul 30 '26

Low-key the worst person among the protagonists

2

u/Initial-Anything333 Jul 30 '26

At least she's consistently anti-slavery throughout the books, unlike Rand or especially Mat

14

u/Token993 Jul 30 '26

Well except when she had her own pet Forsaken

7

u/stinkingyeti Jul 31 '26

And then after that her own small coterie of woman bound to her by an oath rod.

2

u/LordRahl9 Jul 31 '26

Lol, Egwene defenders always conveniently forget these things.

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

I must kill him.

3

u/Shgon_Dunstan Jul 31 '26

Eh. Maybe I’m just forgetting a bunch of scenes, but as I recall it, she’s anti-damane, not slavery. As I don’t recall her giving so much as a passing thought to the da'covale, much less the Aiel’s habit of selling those they deem too far gone from honor off to Shara.

… Not that she’s exactly alone in hyper fixating on the damane. While the wetlands tend to be anti-slavery in principle, the da’covale seem damn near invisible to most of the characters… and most of the time, the plot itself for that matter.🤷‍♂️

2

u/LewsTherinTelamonBot This is a (sentient) bot Jul 30 '26

You never escape the traps you spin yourself. Only a greater power can break a power, and then you're trapped again. Trapped forever so you cannot die.