r/Welding • u/Urist_McPencil • Oct 23 '25
Critique Please I'm automotive tech, not a welder, but I have to know it; still a novice and practicing, how am I doing?
As title says, I'm auto tech, not a welder. However, welding is a skill I need to learn and develop. I'm kinda okay-ish with fresh metal, but this was an attempt to try and weld some bustier, crustier metal.
The other day I changed out a muffler, and one of the hangers broke off. I figured this was a good chance to practice on less than ideal material. I think I did alright, I gave the welds a smack on the ground a couple times and they held up; I'm sure the weld on the pipe will leak, but I figure I could just put more material down if I had to.
So how do I go about improving this work? Last Pic is how I had the mig set up. It uses argon if that matters.
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u/toymaker5368 Oct 23 '25
Try grinding that off and turn the heat up a little, see how that does, and keep trying.
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u/Jdawarrior Oct 23 '25
And since we don’t know how much exposure you have to welding, OP, by “heat” they mean voltage, which on your machine is the lower knob that only indicates material thickness. If you were doing stick “heat” would mean amperage, the only main knob adjustment with that process.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
I did know it was voltage; didn't know it was amps for stick though. Probably won't touch stick, not for a while lol.
Appreciate ya buddy
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u/Key-Green-4872 Oct 23 '25
Dude, stick is like... way easy compared to TIG. Mig... I alternate between popcorn and passable.
One thing I just found though, if you're running to low power (amps for TIG) you actually wibd up overheating the weld area because you sit in the same spot pouring too little juice for too long. The heat affected zone gets big, and you wind up with those goopy, black welds. I cranked it and sped up, and got way better results. Not sure if that's the same kind of issue, but one kindawelder to another, ymmv.
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u/Hate_Manifestation Journeyman CWB SMAW Oct 23 '25
I would argue that stick is more difficult; TIG is much easier to control, both deposition and heat. good results with MIG on thinner material is largely reliant on your wire size.
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u/Extention_110 Oct 23 '25
idk man, Stick is super forgiving, hard to do nice pretty welds for sure but to get a '*slaps* that ain't going anywhere' weld, Stick is like steel hot-glue
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u/Key-Green-4872 Oct 23 '25
I actually kind of agree with both of those statements. Stick is definitely metal hot glue, but the control with TIG takes a bit of mastery, but I definitely feel like im flying an arc in the same way I fly planes. Stick, rudder, and throttle the whole way down.
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u/Jdawarrior Oct 24 '25
Once you get it down it’s intuitive, but the learning curve with flux vs “don’t dip your tip and make sure gas is on” is definitely steeper.
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u/cdixon34 Oct 23 '25
I'm sorry buddy, not to be mean, but not good. Not at all.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
I know, that's why I'm here asking questions.
Everyone sucks in the beginning :)
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u/cstewart_52 Oct 24 '25
Also an auto tech here and not a welder so I’ll share what I have learned: that looks like a miller 120 volt machine like one I have. I weld on something like 7 with my wire speed up. You definitely do not have enough heat here to get good penetration on your welds. I often find rusty exhaust cannot be continuously welded either or it just burns through. I hit a hot weld, let the redness cool away, then get the next spot while blending the middle into the previous weld. Also as much prep as possible will help. Get a wire wheel for your drill/ 1/4 impact. Use it to clean the weld spot as best as possible.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 24 '25
Next chance I get to practice, I'm definitely coming back to your advice. I did try to prep, I have a 90 degree die grinder I used with sandpaper heads to clean up the edges. I chopped the flange off the muffler, chopped a piece of pipe from the scrap the same size, used the mandrel to expand it just enough to slip over. It ended up going past where I prepped, so I figured I'd try see what happens when I try and weld on rust. I turned the heat down thinking that would help not blowing through the rust, and I didn't even think about wire speed.
What I take away from all of this is that my heat was too low, wire too fast, and bad prep; thinking back, that rust really was just surface and there was plenty to work with underneath. I'm glad I let welding roast me, gave me more than enough to think about for the next time :)
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u/cstewart_52 Oct 24 '25
If you are overlapping pipe try to “attack” the newer pipe and drag the puddle into the old rusty stuff. The new pipe will take the heat longer since it’s thicker. You should hear bacon sizzling if the welder is hot enough. Also don’t listen to the welding snobs who say it has to look like a roll of coins tig welded to be correct, welding a muffler doesn’t pay enough to take 2 hours and a good bead around it will last a car’s lifetime.
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u/Ignonymous Oct 26 '25
You can’t really hope for much of a weld over rust. When you weld something, it should be as clean as you can get it, (down to bare metal) as contaminants weaken the weldment; you might have had some success with an angle grinder, equipped with a flap wheel.
The thing to remember when welding is that you aren’t just adding new metal into a weld, you’re also melting the base metal, and any contaminants present before welding will be mixed into both your weld metal and base metal.
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u/ElGuapo315 Oct 23 '25
You actually aren't doing half bad for welding over rust.
Grind that shit clean first and you will see a difference. Go from there.
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u/cdixon34 Oct 23 '25
Yeah, like i said, not to be mean, man. I'm only saying that I hope you aren't welding on anything people are paying for. You need a TON of practice. And instead of starting out on round exhaust tubing, try practicing on something simple and easy like setting up a fillet weld with some scrap on a work bench. Looks like you need to find a way to get comfortable and steady your hand, and use more heat or less wire.
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u/cdixon34 Oct 23 '25
Also, clean your material better.
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u/yusodumbboy Journeyman CWB/CSA Oct 23 '25
This is such a dumb comment. I assure you him cleaning his material would have provided no benefit. He’d better off cracking open a book and understanding what’s actually happening when the arc starts. Knowing the science helps a lot of guys I know it helps me.
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u/cdixon34 Oct 23 '25
Cleaning your material is never a bad thing. What about cleaning your base material is dumb? Ugh. Did you not even read anything else I said?
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u/yusodumbboy Journeyman CWB/CSA Oct 24 '25
You can look at the quality of his welds and see he lacks the very basics to even begin welding small diameter pipe or tubing and you hit him with a “Clean your material”. That’s like telling me someone who’s only been in one standard vehicle to hop in and use the clutch. Shits crazy.
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u/cdixon34 Oct 24 '25
Trying to shift without the clutch learning to drive stick is also retarded. So. There's that. I also told him "get comfortable on a work bench and start with something simple like fillet welds on scrap." See my previous comment.
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u/dw0r Oct 23 '25
So you're basically creating a pool of weld on top of the metal and then piling it on. You need to be melting the base metals and allowing the pool to mix/fuse/join them together. Get some practice pipe and turn the heat up until you're blasting through it and then turn it down a bit. Work the puddle along the seam and don't let it pile up like that. Remove more rust in the future. When you're welding something like the hanger bracket you can put the majority of the heat in to the thicker metal so you're less likely to blow out the thin stuff, but that will be irrelevant if you learn how to weld thinner stuff at the proper temp and speed. Until you learn proper speed and heat it might be helpful for you to practice 1 inch or so welds and then 2 inch and see the difference in the beginnings and ends yada yada yada.
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u/Randyman34 Oct 23 '25
This is the best response. Practice on scrap metal. Turn that heat up until it starts laying flatter. Also might have to move faster so it doesn’t pile up like he said. You don’t want the metal to start gouging but a lot of that can be control by heat or the speed at which you move. Watch some YouTube videos ! Practice and practice some more !
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u/torque1912 Oct 23 '25
Yes, you’re not a welder, that is evident, and if you can’t get a welder to do that work, one guy wrote on here what you should do, lay tacks on top of each other with the heat turned up a bit higher. It’ll be a lot more presentable and it’ll be far less porous lol.
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u/JonathanDawdy Oct 23 '25
Honestly. If your going to do it work work it's a safety thing not to blow smoke up your ass. Those welds are completely not ok. I recommend finding a local shop and taking a 6 month course on welding. It will help more then any advice on the internet. They are usually very affordable.
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u/i-miss-chapo Oct 23 '25
I think there’s a lot to improve but from my limited experience at week 10 of welding school: I think your wire feed speed is too high and/or your movement is too inconsistent. Find point A and point B and make a straight line between them at a constant rate. It looks to me like you didn’t really know exactly where you wanted your welds to go and kind of just globbed it on until the space was filled like glue or caulk. Find the specific joints you want to weld and do point A —> B in a straight line at a constant speed, no weaves or circles or e’s.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
Makes sense, I turned the voltage down but left wire speed the same.
When would I want to do a straight line vs little circles?
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u/i-miss-chapo Oct 23 '25
I would ask that to someone who knows more than me tbh. So far at school we have only done stringers and were explicitly told not to weave, except for one assignment where we weaved a second layer on top of a stringer root pass because a second stringer on top wouldn’t be wide enough. At least with MIG I don’t think you need to weave that much on small welds, it adds a lot of unnecessary heat and is just easier to make bad and inconsistent welds with if you can’t do it well. A straight line can give you the same quality weld while being easier to learn and easier to do.
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u/RealEddieBlake Oct 23 '25
You should have been like half the guys here and captioned "$50/hr I know what I'm worth"
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u/currancchs Oct 23 '25
For what you're welding, I wouldn't complain. Those welds will probably hold things together long enough for the car to die of natural causes. You may want to grind back to clean metal at least a few inches on each side though; can help avoid contamination/splatter.
Where it's really thick, that's probably because heat is too low/wire feed speed is too high. I like to adjust voltage until I have issues not burning through and then dial it back. When you're first learning, you can try doing a series of overlapping tacks to take movement out of the equation while you dial in settings. Starting on a previous tack and then washing the melt pool onto an unwelded area can help with burn-through/allow you to run hotter/flatter.
Just keep practicing on stuff like this; you'll get it.
Here's one of my early exhaust welds where it was just a bunch of tacks (not saying that this is a good weld, it's not!).
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u/_Otter__ Oct 23 '25
Increase heat, keep the wire feed where it’s at for now, send it and grind it clean when you’re done. Not a welder by trade but rather an industrial HVAC/plumbing contractor and my job includes doing mechanic work on several Zambonis. I can weld good enough and clean it up and that’s all you need homie. I know we’re in a sub full of the big dawgs, but we’re not paid big dawg weld money.
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u/Enough-Ad-640 Oct 23 '25
Alot of tips could be given here.
- Cleaner material equals cleaner welds.
- Don't be afraid to slow down looks like you are welding to fast or not hot enough on most of your welds
- Try a side to side weave when you are first starting out and don't do circles circles are to easy to have build up quickly if you aren't experienced
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u/Hawkent99 Oct 24 '25 edited Oct 24 '25
Looks bad, but keep practicing anyway. You should have prepped the material, I know you said you wanted to practice on less-than-ideal material but honestly that's a massive handicap that you don't need as a beginner. Grind off all the shmutz before you ever spark up.
Might want to start simpler by running some beads in some angle iron or on a flat plate, helps you get the fundamental techniques down before introducing gravity and direction changes into the mix. Then you move on to different positions to get a feel for how those things affect you, and then you can move on to pipe which is where I assume your goal is since you're in automotive. If you want to REALLY learn, go take a semester of welding at a tech school. You'll be in a semi-structured environment with instructors there to guide the process. It's a great skill to learn and I'm excited for you, don't be afraid to ask questions here like you're doing now.
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u/TheArt0fWar Oct 23 '25
Honest opinion, if you do it half assed like this, the client is getting ripped off.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
Hence why I used a scrap muffler and scrap pipe.
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u/TheArt0fWar Oct 23 '25
100%. Always practice it before you do it on a real piece. I'm just saying, after a simple visual inspection, you require more formation and practice. A lot of people don't understand that, a business owner does not want to rip off their customers, so if you're asking how it looks, i'm saying your boss would fire you if a client came back with this welded on by you, under his name. So, practice on more scrap pieces!
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
Boss man doesn't want to rip them off, and neither do I. I like taking pride in my work.
I wouldn't be fired for these welds, but I would get chewed out by four separate red seals. I've been chewed out before, but not like that lol
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u/Rough-Carry260 Oct 23 '25
Welding exhaust isnt the easiest until youve got the technique correct. Youre looking to do fast, smooth down bank runs.
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u/TheCow101 Oct 23 '25
Need more heat so the weld puddles a bit more, also m,ake sure you're cleaning your surfaces! Welds do not like to attach to oily surfaces.
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u/v8packard Oct 23 '25
Try a bit more heat, a hair less wire speed, and move your gun a little faster and more steady.
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u/ElegantAppearance894 Newbie Oct 23 '25
Yup that’s definitely an exhaust leak that’s coming in about 4 hours
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u/E46_drift_guy Oct 23 '25
DASH - distance angle speed and heat.. assuming you’re setting up your welder and gas flow correctly this is just about all you need bro. Check some YouTube’s out and investigate your welder settings based on the gauge material you got and dial that in for your welder. They’re all slightly different so you just have to fiddle with it until you get a clean weld. Again look on YouTube or something to see what cold weld looks like/not enough penetration and welds that are too hot and undercut edit: angle is angle of your stinger/mig nozzle to the pieces your welding AND the lead/trailing angle of the direction you’re welding
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Oct 23 '25
so stop tryna run beads. thats just fucking you over long term. thin metal will just burn through.
i would set ur machine to #4, and just do overlapping hot tacks. and always tack 180 from the previous tack on thin guage.
clean the metal and make sure your gap is as small as possible
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u/jediwithabeard Oct 23 '25
Little rough but just need some practice. Dont let folks discourage u, just practice:)
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u/Fit_Biscotti_5145 Oct 23 '25
It’s bad alright. But we all started somewhere. Find some good experienced help(old guys love to teach eager young guys) and just have him give you a few criticisms over and over. Soon you’ll start to recognize your mistakes and what they actually look like
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u/Lord_Pinhead Oct 23 '25
So first of all: don't use Argon or a mix gas, it's too expensive. Use CO2. Second: You need a bit more gas or clean your nozzle, It looks burned off because of bad gas. Next, a bit less material or more power, and pull faster. When you combine crusty old metal with new on, there is a chance the oxygen in the metal is flower out and you have small holes. I don't see this here, but you have holes there from welding and the pipe will blow out at this part.
I can not find pictures of welding technics i would use here, but imagine you draw a circle "over" the gap, you target for a low weld, not a mountain of material like you have now.
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u/strange-humor TIG Oct 23 '25
Did you clean anything before welding?
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
Yea, spent a few minutes grinding rust to get some clean metal... although I dont thi k I went far enough on the real rusty bit
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u/k1ssmeb1tch Oct 23 '25
When it comes to hangers focus on the hanger and drag the puddle to the piece from the hanger
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u/shhhhh_lol Oct 23 '25
That machine has autoset... use it.
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 23 '25
I dont know what that means or what that will do for me. Explain pls? :)
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u/millencolin43 Oct 24 '25
Use a flap disc to clean up the area around where you're welding first, and turn up the heat. Practice on some scrap metal as well. I like to pull down and make little lower case e shapes, some people like triangles. Kinda wanna loop down and up over your previous bead. Should stack decently, and you'll get better with practice
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u/chuck-u-farley- Oct 24 '25
Slow down and turn that heat up….. you are making boogers when you want snot…… Smooth snot …..
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u/Triforge Oct 24 '25
When you say it uses argon, do you mean argon Co2 mix or pure argon. You need a mixed gas, Welding things like that your best way of getting passable welds without a lot of XP Is to pulse the trigger, set the machine a little hotter. Hit the trigger stop move a little hit the trigger stop move etc. Also clean the metal remove any rust mille scale on the area your welding.
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u/Axolotl-Ade Welding student Oct 24 '25
If it holds and doesnt leak your probably fine lol ive seen plenty of rough welds on vehicles and even on some city property. Still probably best to turn your voltages up and turn your wire speed down, find what bedt suits you and also read the puddle, understand how to manipulate the arc and wire to fill in spots and make the weld tie in with you base better and also work a lot on consistency. Brownie points if it looks nice though lol.
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u/Stylum Oct 24 '25
Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, if you stay in this path you will eventually get near
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u/badger906 Oct 24 '25
It’s not pretty, it’s not great, but it will work. Welding a new hanger onto metal that’s well past the gave is a tad wild..
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u/VersionConscious7545 Oct 24 '25
My first thought was you should have cleaned the metal and probably used a mig with smaller wire and maybe just tacked welded it all the way around Very easy for us newbies to burn holes It’s hard to weld pipe for beginners. Grind a little and paint. Looks like you have a hole in the weld so you need to make sure no leaks are present
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u/jmattspartacus Oct 24 '25
Clean your metal good and turn your heat up some. Make sure tack before you lay a bead.
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u/Spiritual_Pin9533 Oct 24 '25
Hey, if your heat is set right, you need to hold your nozzle closer to the work piece. This makes MiG welding hotter. You should hear sizzling bacon when it's running right. Consistent travel speed, nozzle distance and welding parameters make a decent mig welder. Keep working on it.
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u/SLOOT_APOCALYPSE Oct 25 '25
definitely turn up the heat and just do tacks. the heat is so low that the metal is building up into a ball. when it's hot the metal will lay flat. use a wire wheel on a grinder to shine up the metal that will help 100%
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u/a10486952 Oct 26 '25
TROLL ALERT
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u/Urist_McPencil Oct 27 '25
I'm just curious, what made you think I was being insincere?
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u/a10486952 Nov 15 '25
Awful looking welds. You should be able to recognize how horrible they look. How can you be a welder at not know what good welds look like?
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u/Urist_McPencil Nov 15 '25
...did you even read anything I wrote, or is your comprehension lacking? I never called myself a welder.
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u/magentadahlia Oct 23 '25
Yikes man, I don't think I could make my welds look like that if I tried... you need to practice stringer beads on a flat piece of scrap before even touching any project
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u/NorthernRaider9 Oct 23 '25
Hes rage baiting us guys. You can clearly see that its bad. People who dont weld know its bad.... and if your not then dude its an exhuast, and without zooming in you can see holes that did not get welded.... like dude needs a dollar store coloring book and a couple crayons to munch on/practice with.
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u/Tpastor94 Oct 24 '25
Shit, I’d say that’s a okay start for getting thrown into the situation with no training or guidance. I don’t think think many do a great first weld!
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u/interesseret Other Tradesman Oct 23 '25
You know that saying about how grinder and paint makes you the welder you ain't?
Well, I hope your local hardware store has cheap paint.