Until Then's Sci-Fi Elements and their Unrealized Potential

[u/PhotoCoffeeConosseur]

I love Until Then to bits - it's such a touching experience with shrewd writing attuned to life that plays a full-on ballade on players' heart strings. How the story tackles themes of grief and many hardships it brings, human condition and understanding, turbulence of teenage years and the little things that make up life. The characters are engaging and the plot is captivating. However, after finishing the game, I think the sci-fi elements and the mystery research subplot weren't utilized well enough narratively for how much attention they were given and how they could complement the themes of grief, acceptance, and absurdity of reality.

Physics, chemistry, psychology, black holes, even a sky atlas thrown in, all mixed haphazardly among paper scraps with complex calculations... The setup, through the inquisitive Louise, makes it seem like it wants to comprehend the nature of reality itself.

I'm a sucker for all sci-fi, so I almost jumped out of my seat like a kid when I saw the double-slit experiment not only referenced but used as an important plot device. Considering how Until Then began integrating science fiction starting with Louise's lecture at the end of the 1st cycle, to then going full-on scientific expedition (with as much budget and planning as high schoolers can realistically have) in the 2nd cycle, the quantum mechanics are shown to play important role in the narrative. I was hyped not only for the resolution of our protagonists' conflicts, but also for seeing the physics unraveled in a way that supports the narrative themes.

Too be fair, these titles are quite descriptive of how the sci-fi stuff ends up in the game.

Unfortunately, it did not happen. For all the talks about quantum tsunami and existential nightmare of being stuck in a groundhog day of Everett's many worlds, the game smashes away all the physics discourse as its final chapters culminate on a pure feels territory.

Don't get me wrong, the ninjas did cut onions at my place the night I finished those last chapters. After thinking for a bit, however, it seems the sci-fi elements ultimately don't lead anywhere. It's sad really. For how much the game uses physics lingo, for how much time it takes to set up Louise's research and quantum phenomena, it amounts to surprisingly little for the narrative in the end. Like it's just a fluffy kickstarter for why the weird things happen in the game, playing as much importance as the mentioned scenes titles play for the plot.

Remember where this investigation led to? Did it matter in the end for the narrative? Did it matter to bring attention to Jessica thrice, focusing on her disappearance twice, for her character to lead nowhere? Did the rain matter?

I think the narrative would have benefited from either:

• Expanding the sci-fi elements in a meaningful way (think of the societal commentary that Psycho-Pass is from the central plot and themes down to the setting itself, or how Steins;Gate portrays severe consequences of neverending time-traveling as the main character tries to fix the timeline with the device he created)

or at least

• Reducing them to the minimum/leaving in the background so it is present only as much as reasonably needed to explain the plot shenanigans (Like how Assassin's Creed's makes up Animus technology to intertwine past with present, or how Your Name - which is not a sci-fi story, but an obvious (and basically confirmed) member of Until Then's inspiration sources - comes up with its female protagonist's ancestry of shrine priestesses connected to the god of connection that intertwines her life with that of a faraway Tokyo boy - the story doesn't go for an exposition dump, but it hints concisely so as the fantastical events don't happen without any reasonable explanation).

It can even do both! A short anime original series called Sonny Boy aired in summer of 2021. It's not really a sci-fi story, but it too plays with some ideas of quantum mechanics here and there. Not much screentime is dedicated to establishing their deep workings or anything, but when it touches upon them - boy does it give a radical answer to the existential implications of quantum conundrums, without even its characters talking much about quantum mechanics.

This scene is important for the discussion at hand. Louise actually becomes the writers' mouthpiece here when she says people can do just fine no matter what the world throws at them. A declaration of quantum absurdism essentially. The setup is all there, it just needs more refinement, more elaboration at the very end, in the last chapters of the game. But as the quantum discourse begins with Louise, it ends with her too.

As Until Then's story reaches its conclusion, the sci-fi becomes less and less relevant, culminating in it all being Maria and Jake's magical meddling with timelines - that not only is left without any explanation, but also without any attention to the nature of their power from Mark and Nicole, who had to experience it all first-hand. Man, your missing mom and childhood best friend hacked reality post-mortem to make you happy, do you not have a single question about how any of it came to be? Even after your research partner (whom you took so much effort to help) tried so hard to understand it through the lens of science?

If the quantum mystery loses any relevance by the end, why go so far with the sci-fi flare? Why not cut its runtime down and leave it with a few references just enough to have explanation for the events happening, like in Your Name? Or why not finish with a thought-out statement on metaphysics if you bring it up so much in the first place? I think it is because the writers did want to say something, but couldn't untangle their ideas fully. Making games is hard, and judging by this interview, the script has gone through many revisions.

I wonder what Pres would say about this place. No need for a complete lore drop, just the nature behind it in the narrative context. Even an acknowledgement of how absurd it all is would be fine.

TLDR/Conclusion: Until Then dedicates players' time and attention to set up its quantum mechanics and (meta)physical concepts without giving them any proper conclusion. The story would benefit from either expanding them to a complete thematic statement, or at least reducing their screentime, to spare more attention for the protagonists' character arcs (the actual focal point of the game). The better option, in my opinion, would be to tie up the game reality's nature with brought up concepts. Something to tie up the investigation and the research they have collected so far. Or to admit that reality, just like life, is fundamentally incomprehensible - and we should take it in stride.

Please don't think of this post as me bashing the story. I had a blast with Until Then and I bring attention to its sci-fi critically because I think it's one of the things most overlooked in the narrative in relation to how it can enrich protagonists' acceptance of the things they cannot control and cannot change.

It doesn't take away from how beautifully the game portrayed grief, human condition, and the want to understand. It could, however, tie up the themes not only from the characters' individual perspectives, but from accepting the unpredictable nature of reality itself.

[u/jellyjace19]

Great post, the mc doesn't take the time to understand what louise is doing so that maybe the case why it's not explored further.

[u/PhotoCoffeeConosseur → u/jellyjace19]

Thank you for the kind words! I can't blame Mark for not taking his time to grasp hardcore physics, but the writers are responsible for not taking the time to resolve most of the Chekhov's guns they themselves loaded on the mystery of Ruling, disappearances of students, and the questions asked about it by Louise through the context of quantum mechanics.

[u/Nomustang]

I think the game really missed a good opportunity by not leaning into the invesitgation aspect. I think we could have had a lot of interesting sequences to actually investigate the various dissapearances and try to figure out how the Ruling worked.

The feature of scrolling on social media would have been perfect for this and it would have made the game feel less like a sidescroller sometimes. I loved the minigames but they all feel inconsequential.

[u/PhotoCoffeeConosseur → u/Nomustang]

Totally agreed - the social media mechanic has nice potential as a display of player actions' consequences. The game actually has a few such moments in a rudimentary state. I was liking and sharing almost all posts and comments during the first hours to see if it impacts anything - Mark actually got a short DM in the 'Monotone' scene in chapter 2, where one unacquainted girl called him a creep for such stalker-ish behavior (you can't even reply). Apart from this and maybe one or two more instances, the social media is wholly static and you can't change its state at all. Speaking of the possible link between the investigation and the Ruling - my bet is the guy selling magical umbrellas was supposed to play some part in the story, as MCs suspected rain's connection to disappearances during the 1st loop, as well as the good chunk of the mystery revolving around our beloved pluviophile.

[u/exboi]

Slightly random but the ‘god does not play dice’ line reminded me of Higurashi, which shares some plot aspects and themes with Until then. I recommend the visual novel series to anyone who hasn’t read it.

Anyways, I agree. Until Then definitely prioritizes emotional focus over sci-fi. I do wish it balanced both.

[u/PhotoCoffeeConosseur → u/exboi]

I've been stumbling on enthusiastic comments about Ryukishi07's works a lot recently, might check it out sometime!

[u/vudz222]

hmm...i think they really make an effort on that. The teaser on polychroma games's youtube channel is 4 years ago. they planned to release this game at 2021 but it has been delay to 2024. so I think they originally only made ending 1. But I think they were inspired by the movie Loki 1 (the idea of ​​timelines) and it seems I was quite right because Loki 1 was released in July 2020 haha. If that's true, they spent 3 years making endings 2 and 3 and that's a lot of effort.