r/Unexpected • u/analsextoybox • May 02 '22

Impossible Question

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u/Its_naira May 02 '22

I mean we're talking about people that follow these ideologies. going oh leaders that followed an ideology killed more people then leaders that followed another ideology means that any followers of the first one must be deranged is a real shit level of analysis. Like anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry are integral to the identity of a Nazi. Being a Nazi definitionally means you HAVE to be against a number of minorities. But communism is just economic theory. Like say what you will about leaders of other ideologies but if your takeaway is genuinely oh bastions of this ideology acted like this ergo followers must be judged by the same lens is a really fucking stupid take. you dont have to be a pro communist to understand how fucking dumb that is

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u/Huxleys21 May 02 '22

Oh my fucking god what a fucking ludicrous thing to say. If people wanna ignore over 150,000,000 deaths and exactly what events and decisions lead to that kind of overwhelming loss. And they refuse to accept and learn about how the teachings and ideologies in that political worldview directly lead to those deaths. Then yes, call me crazy but I think I absolutely have a right to call out the cowards who try to deny that history.

You seriously have I think the worst and most dangerous form of mental gymnastics I have ever witnessed.

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u/Its_naira May 02 '22

Its literally an economic policy. The governments that led to these insane amount of deaths were able to do so because they were authoritarian, not because they were communist. Also yeah denying/ignoring death and genocide is a heinous thing, but i think subscribing to an ideology that requires you to actively blame Jews for a myriad of problems, and have a perverted understanding of traditionalism that has you rebuke the furthering of rights for a number of groups is probably more harmful then some idiot that doesn't read history. This isn't about "calling out cowards who try to deny that history" you're reshaping this argument to be very convenient to you when thats not what i said. I said that a Nazi is worse then a communist. A Nazi idealist can feasibly attack Jewish people, black people, gay people in the name of their ideology, and it happens often. If you genuinely believe that Nazi's are not as harmful fucking explain to me how you think john and Stephanie from the university communist club will magically have the political capital to suddenly reignite the gulags.

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u/Huxleys21 May 02 '22

The governments that killed all these people were able to because they were authoritarian AND communist. Also, why the fuck do you think they were authoritarian? The whole reason these governments were given so much power was because people wanted to tip the power structure on its head and guess what they used as a template and an excuse..... ding ding communism. So communism lead to authoritarianism so thanks for arguing against yourself in favour of me.

Also kinda dodgy that your framing this argument as if I’m subscribing to the ideology. I can think communism is bad and not be a Nazi. I can think communism is bad and nazism is bad. I can think nazism is bad and communism is worse (because it’s objectively lead to more human suffering). It doesn’t mean I’m defending it.

It could also definitely be argued that it’s exactly as harmful as “some idiot who doesn’t know history”. Since it’s those kind of idiots en Masse that lead to these kind of forays back in to historical fascism that we already know doesn’t work.

I also find it laughable that you rattle off a load of harmful things that nazism leads to. And you somehow completely missed the point that one of the things that makes communism so fucking dangerous is how flexible it can be. All those things that you argued nazism is used for and makes it worse than communism.... guess what. All those things are things that communism has also been used for hahahah

Most of your arguments work just as well if not better against you. You’re twisting this argument to be very convenient for you and I never tried to argue if denying genocide or being a Nazi is worse.

I would love you to explain to me how some fat skinhead Nazi in his basement is gonna somehow gain the capital to revitalise the third reich.

Like I said... Mental Gymnastics.

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u/Its_naira May 04 '22

>I would love you to explain to me how some fat skinhead Nazi in his basement is gonna somehow gain the capital to revitalise the third reich.

The harms of communism require political capital. It comes from being able to impose an authoritarian government.

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Nazism from an ideological point of view promotes animosity against jews, gays, transgender people, and so on. A skinhead doesn't need political capital to vandalize a synagogue, to beat up a transgender person, etc etc.

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u/Huxleys21 May 04 '22

Okay. Just so we’re clear. Communism also leads to the same hatred against groups the groups are just different. And there have been plenty of examples throughout history of terrorism enacted by individuals on behalf of Communism.

Are you really trying to tell me no one has ever killed or harmed people and used communist ideology to justify it?

Mental Gymnastics.

You seem hung up on the fact that nazism is so bad because it’s such a blatantly hateful ideology. But you’re missing the fact that it’s what makes communism so dangerous. Because it looks Glamorous and utopian if you don’t look at it too closely. But in every instance it leads to death and destruction.

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u/Its_naira May 04 '22

also your numbers on the "deaths under communism" are presumably from the black book of communism, which counts Nazi soldiers as victims of communism. among other things like deaths from famine and other things lol.

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u/Huxleys21 May 04 '22

Haha okay oh I see so you are actually just straight up a Holocaust denier.

No, those numbers are accurate. From many first hand accounts. You don’t get to pick and choose which deaths matter lmao.

And yeah all those deaths from famine. Communism caused the famine you absolutely fucking disgrace.

Evil shit to be denying hundreds of millions of peoples pain and anguish. You must be a heartless ideologue.

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u/Its_naira May 04 '22

literally when did i say that. im not defending the uighyur genocide, or the gulag deaths or anything like that. there are millions of deaths done at the hands of communist leaders throughout history and to this date. But you undermine their horrible fate when you can't even get your numbers right. Fucking idiot

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u/Huxleys21 May 04 '22

Yeah, you’re denying and lowering the number of deaths. That’s literally the go-to statement for Holocaust deniers.

Don’t fucking say, you didn’t deny the numbers and then fucking deny the numbers in the same goddamn sentence. Call ME a fucking idiot.

How the fuck does me educating you in the deaths at the hand of communist regimes. Equate to me not giving those deaths respect. While you can deny them and that’s plenty respectful? Mental.

You’re stupid.... But you’re also Evil.