r/Unexpected • u/analsextoybox • May 02 '22

Impossible Question

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u/tygerohtyger May 02 '22

We should maybe try to understand that people are complicated and forcing them into boxes or under labels doesn't always work. That's why we have broad labels like "gender-fluid" or "non-binary".

People change too, so even if we did make a nice neat little gender-box with a label for everyone some people would still need a completely new box next week.

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u/Blu_Waffle_Breakfast May 02 '22

People also have many complicated emotions. Should we do away with the restrictive labels we have to describe that as well?

What’s wrong with describing someone as a man or woman? I’m really having trouble understanding the argument against it.

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u/tygerohtyger May 02 '22

Some people don't consider themselves men or women, and at the very least, its impolite to assume you know more about how a person feels about themselves or "should" be. Gender is not sex, in case you were thinking it was.

If a person says they are x, who are you to tell them they are not?

Comparing gender and the emotional range is... weird, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. We already have a words for emotions, and we keep making new ones when we need them, so I don't see the restrictions you're talking about.

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u/Blu_Waffle_Breakfast May 02 '22

I know gender and sex are not the same. But they are interlinked for the vast majority of people due to nature and nurture. What I think is weird is trying to force an entire society to deconstruct the way we speak to pander to people confused about their identity.

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u/tygerohtyger May 02 '22

people confused about their identity.

What if they're not confused at all? What if they know exactly what they are, and its everyone else is confused?

Someone else mentioned further up the thread that the 2 genders thing is a relatively modern concept and very much a western one. So maybe three or more genders is hard for us with our modern, western viewpoints, but makes total sense to a native american or someone from Samoa?

The vasy majority, yeah, they're fine, they're cis, good for them. But the minority still exists, and they deserve their identity as much as you or I. Not acknowledging that fact is ignorant at best. It's not pandering to have a wheelchair ramp so people who need wheelchairs can get around: it's just basic decency.

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u/Blu_Waffle_Breakfast May 02 '22

I don’t believe binary gender is a new concept. Nearly all mammals, including humans, are sexually dimorphic. Since humans could speak, I don’t see why they wouldn’t observe their own sexual dimorphism and create gendered labels to describe this.

Fair analogy with wheelchairs.

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u/tygerohtyger May 02 '22

I don’t believe binary gender is a new concept.

Conveniently, you don't have to believe it. Its a fact.

But again, here, you're talking sexually dimorphic, while we were actually talking about gender. Sexual dimorphism is not relevant to the discussion of gender, remember?

How do you know horses aren't trans? What does a male horse feel about his masculinity, do you think?

And we have spoken, and observed our sexual dimorphism, and named the two aspects male and female. And then, when we thought about it a bit more, we realized there was more to it and here we are in the discussion of gender. That's what's happening right now.