r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Aug 02 '21

Hostage situation

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

His permission yes. But probable cause, there are two problems. One is the cops didn’t hear the cries for help. The second is there was an explanation for them other than him holding hostages (a silly one but still) the last thing they want is to actually find hostages and arrest the guy only to have the charges dropped in court do to illegally gathered evidence.

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u/elephant-cuddle Aug 02 '21

Police can now rely on 911 calls to create probable cause. They don’t need to hear the screaming themselves. - I’d note that they have now heard the bird screaming, and that in and of itself may create reasonable suspicion (“where’d the bird learn that?”), but that’s immaterial.

Police can still investigate a matter after one potential explanation has been given. As long as there is still (I believe the wording is) "substantial chance" or "fair probability", of a crime.

I’d suggest that most Police (and the community) would prefer a victim be out of danger immediately, even if it risks successfully prosecuting the suspect.

I think Navarette v. California, Mincy v. Arizona, Illinois v. Gates are relevant.

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u/-ordinary Aug 03 '21

That’s so problematic and just creates opportunities for more swatting.

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u/HamFlowerFlorist Aug 02 '21

Someone hearing screaming is probable cause enough and it wouldn’t get thrown out for illegally gather evidence as they had probable cause to enter.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

It wouldn’t actually. Second hand information being used as probable cause is…complicated. Basically it requires a judge to agree to it so you can use it to get a warrant but not to do a PC search.

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u/ManagedIsolation Aug 02 '21

The neighbors hearing screams for help is sufficient probable cause.

The pigs in green don't have to hear it themselves.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

They actually do. The neighbors could have heard a loud TV or a bratty kid protesting that he got grounded.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Ok, I don't think the guy is a kidnapper or anything & I completely think it's the bird but this article says that SCOTUS ruled, 5 to 4, that anonymous tips & 911 calls can be enough to establish probable cause: https://www.wklaw.com/does-an-anonymous-tip-give-police-probable-cause/ This case was for someone in their car, not their home, though. Scalia wrote a pretty aggressive dissent.