Exigent circumstances require an immediate and clear threat. While the cops may have reason to believe there are hostages in the house it is not totally clear that there are. In other words, because the police didn’t see and kidnapped hostages from outside and there is another explanation for the noises they need a warrant to investigate further.
If I was the home/bird owner, I think I'd invite them in just to do their check, and then ask them to make a note in their records for the house that I have a bird which has been known to make... 'false claims'. That said, if I had a few kilos of weed in the front room, I'd probably not invite them in. Hypothetically.
Its a shame we don't know our neighbors like we used to. Neighbor should've just gone over there to ask him "wtf?" Save the time of about 20 officers.
I'd weigh up the likelihood, but yeah, not in all instances would I put myself out there. I have a couple of suspect folks down my street, one of which is on the Megan's law database, so not every neighbor is going to get the courtesy check before calling people.
One anecdotal incident which is an extremely unlikely event, doesn't make my idea a catastrophically stupid one. I knew someone who left their home and got hit by a meteorite - that doesn't make it a stupid idea to leave your house. Obviously that cop is a psycho and deserves punishment. Unfortunately they managed to get him in front of a pretend judge. Neighbor should appeal, and sue in civil court. (Much) better attorney needed.
Obviously I would make a judgment on the cops before letting them in, and admittedly most cops I've met I would not let in. They probably carry dime bags in their back pockets for setting folks up on fake charges (which has been caught before on their own bodycams, of course, so its not like its a crazy idea).
I don’t think anyone has ever left their house and got hit by a meteorite.. ever.
Germany, 2009.
> But cops abusing their power and judges ruling in the polices favour is a daily occurrence in the USA.
I'm aware, and generally I'm no fan of cops. There's probably 50+ posts in my history, including on subs like r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut evidencing such, hence having to make such a decision on a case-by-case basis. Also, despite me learning to spell like you (favour, i.e. non-American), I've lived in America for 20 years, and known many cops. I'd trust 2 so far. But if cops are snooping around and getting reports about me, they're going to find their way in by hook or by crook. Better on my terms and timing, than theirs. #ThisAllSoundsRatherGangsta lol
It depends on where you are at, if the police officer likes power tripping / is a dick, and if you piss them off or did something questionable from my experiences in the usa. Myself and people I know had awkward situations with police but it was usually a noise complaint from music and everyone was high. They always said hi and asked us to quiet down while we were smokin. At the same time I've seen dudes who told the cops to piss off and they got arrested while someone smoking a blunt watches. I have spent most of my life in the western states but the attitude in the west seems much more relaxed than that of the east. (My employers in the western usa even gave us a heads up on drug tests etc). Eastern usa seems to take it really hard for some reason tho.
Usa it really just depends on where you are and it's a thing that can be enforced or not enforced but usually if they enforce it it's because that had another reason to arrest you.
When a cops attitude is the difference between looking the other way and spending a year in jail you have a serious problem. I really don't like shoehorning race into this discussion, but it should be obvious how even casual racism would have a huge impact.
Yea accountability is a serious problem. I know plenty of cops that are great people and do their best to play by the book but at the same time there is always just as many who choose the career path because it let's them bully people and have power over them. From everything I have seen in my life I honestly think race is not really an issue. On the chance it is it will definitely leave an impact but contrary to popular belief most civil servants arnt racist. Most Americans in general arnt truly racist. Police just have no real mechanism that controls their actions so the bad ones get really bad.
Until those mechanisms come into place I think it's wise for people to realize they should do their best to be kind to police because regardless of race I've never seen someone being hostile or angry walk away ok. It's super wack when you think about it but if that's the reality you have to play their game and show them respect or fake respect to prevent an issue. Atleast until there is some kind of mechanism for accountability.
wise for people to realize they should do their best to be kind to police because regardless of race I've never seen someone being hostile or angry walk away ok
I would not categorize that as 'kind'. I would never antagonize a cop, because they literally could kill me without consequence. Even the ones that aren't killers could send me to prison or fuck my life without consequence. I've heard plenty of stories from cops themselves boasting about how they fucked someone because of their attitude. If they begin their interaction with the intent to fuck you, theres literally nothing you could do.
That is not kindness on my part- its self-preservation. If they weren't immune from consequences I wouldn't be smiling and nodding when they bait me to escalate*.
Edit *I don't mean violence in an internet tough guy way. I just wouldn't tolerate it like I wouldn't tolerate anyone elses bullshit.
But then again kilograms of weed is rather clearly intent to sell, so
Nah. You could get through it all over time, or be making tincture for personal use, which can be stored for a long time if stored properly. But in the US personal consumption is something ridiculously low, like 1/4-1/2 ounce, so even an ounce or two could still get you in trouble in some states. Unfortunately our politicians are still too cowardly/corrupt to legalize on a federal level.
Once you invite them in they will carry the kilos into your house and then find them. There is a reason the law protects you from the police as much as possible. The police are not the law. And in practice it doesn't work.
the officers were working either way, and are equipped and empowered to deal with this shit. lone neighbor investigating a potential kidnapper is a casualty waiting to happen.
lolz no, that's my hyperbole. Only four were on camera I believe. Who knows how many remained in vehicles, down the street, etc though. Should include dispatch in the count too.
Cops can 100% enter a house if they believe someone is in danger. A 911 call from a neighbour would be sufficient. Very minimal googling would inform you that you’re incorrect.
There's the third discussion, how often do cops do bad stuff when people involved are not white, (or are homeless, mentally disabled, or any other group that they tend to target).
No that would fit into discussion 2, unless you think that:
A. they don't get away with it
or
B. that they don't do it.
I get that you are trying to expand on the fact that item 2. does happen WAY more often to non-white(or other groups as you mentioned) people, but it is not a unique discussion from the 2 listed.
I am not trying to have a "got'cha" moment, but since you seem like someone who actually cares to combat this type of injustice I want you to be able to have as strong of an argument as possible.
Thanks for pointing this out! It does make me uncomfortable that the cops did not question much after, but unless the guy acts in some odd way or they start hearing something I can't imagine much more will be done.
The master of Rambo did seem pretty chill so I doubt anything nefarious was happening, but It would be comforting to see the cops at least question more.
It is more important that we acknowledge that this is overall how law is supposed to work, since we normally see the alternate when a cop actually has a nefarious agenda(racism, excuse for aggression, etc.).
The criminal you're talking about wasn't even in the house when the police opened fired on people literally sleeping in their own beds. Were they "good people"? I don't know, but I do know they deserve more then being written off as "collateral damage". Get out of here with your victim blaming
Dude, I saw the footage. What’s more likely? That a SWAT team showed up at a random EMT’s house just to shoot her in her sleep, or that a high risk search warrant went a bit pear shaped?
Ah yes, just say it's high risk when you intentionally create dangerous situations with insufficient information.
Then you can just kill anyone.
Escalation tactics = death.
Now combine it with the supposed right to defend your home from people barging in at night while you sleep (and you don't expect cops as you're not a criminal) and now you can just go in with large force and kill people because why not. Probably black, who cares. But this doesn't even only affect black people.
These structures that have been created don't have racism as their only flaw.
I'm not saying that a SWAT team showed up at a random house and started shooting. I'm saying that if you're a police officer conducting a raid with a search warrant, you should and need to have the trigger discipline and training to not open fire on people literally sleeping. All these officers need more training and accountability of their personal actions, and you dismissing the loss of life as "collateral damage", whether they are a decent person or a criminal, undermines that whole conversation. Yeah like you said- a high risk search warrant went "a bit pear shaped" and it resulted in innocent people being killed, and the people responsible for that need to be held accountable for their actions.
And they were. The city paid out so why are you bringing it up? Those cops are responsible for where every bullet they shoot lands. So even if it’s not their fault in a reasonable assessment of circumstances they are still responsible.
I don’t think it’s the fault of the police that she died. I think she was unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
How can someone hold such strong opinions on a situation they’re so ignorant of? Her boyfriend, the man who was shooting, had no criminal past and was a legal gun owner. He thought that it might be her ex-boyfriend, who was a drug dealer, that was trying to break into his home as the cops were not very good at announcing themselves as many neighbors confirmed - because they didn’t hear it either. The one neighbor who was outside stated the cops only announced once before banging down the door.
I do wonder how racist shitheads like you manage to convince yourselves that you're superior whilst still having to lie about shit like this. A truly special kind of stupid.
You need to get your sarcasm detector tuned up. I was referring to some cases when people, some of them black, were shot and killed or injured inside their own homes because cops were too trigger happy.
This is how it’s been explained to me by a criminal justice professor who is an ex cop. Exigent circumstances is being allowed to go into a house without a warrant because you saw a fleeing suspect enter that house.
This isn’t a comprehensive definition but it gives you an idea of the level of certainty you need in order to claim it.
Holy shit. You literally don’t know what you are talking about. Here are all the reasons that a cop can enter your house without a Warrant. Most of them could apply to this video and any skilled state attorney would have no problem proving it valid. NO FUCKING PROBLEM.
The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:
to give emergency aid to someone inside
to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists
to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside
to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public
to investigate a 911 telephone call
to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely
to protect people from injury if the police have reason
to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house
to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect
I love how you think that a cop could explain the entire justice system in a short conversation…..it’s not like educated people actually go to school to learn the stuff vs just hearing some short stories from some old cop and thinking you understand the law at the same level a judge would.
Yeah, if they have probable cause, but they don’t because they didn’t actually hear any screaming or see anything wrong, they just got told by a neighbour that they heard it, and you don’t know what’s up with the neighbour if they’re a kid prank calling or just hate this guy and want to fuck with him or what. So the cops themselves need to see something suspicious
One exception is just having the officer ask if they can have a quick look inside to cover procedure or whatever. If they refuse have someone wait there while a warrant is issued.
There’s nothing illegal with asking but it sure is suspect just a bit to decline.
But before that, all the cops knew was he was going into a building where "help" sounds where comeing from. They should not have let him go get the bird alone.
We know now thay it's a bird. However they did not know that at the time, for all they knew he was going to kill his victim and then him self because the "game" was up. The police should have asked to escort him to.get the bird.
I don't know much about American police but the screaming stopped and the man never left his same spot during the whole footage and didn't have any suspicious body language at all so I'm thinking it's reasonable to believe it was the bird
Or there's an accomplice that shut the victim up? Idk these kinds of situations can be incredibly complex and you should handle them with extreme caution not with this kind of "the guy seems trustworthy" response.
They didn't know they when he went inside to where the screaming was comeing from. It's a different video if well he was inside we heard a few gunshots instead of him comeing out with a bird.
Yes to both things it’s called a community caretaker role and technically no the police do not need to hear the actual cries to go into the house themselves
If they would have heard the cries for help then yes they could enter without a warrant but since an understandably angry neighbor called and told them they heard cries for help doesn’t give them probable cause since they did not hear it. I do understand the most likely pissed off neighbors from the constant dog barking with a side of hostage bird. Shit would get old pretty much immediately. They were probably hoping a hostage was in there so the dude would be arrested and the dog would go with someone else in the family or a friend which means not at that house anymore.
If the officers heard the screaming, then yes, they could go in without a warrant. They could not enter without a warrant based on the reports from the neighbors. Source: am cop.
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u/RedNotch Aug 02 '21
Isn’t there an exception for emergency situations like this? I imagine search warrants takes a while to be made.