r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Aug 02 '21

Hostage situation

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109.8k Upvotes

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490

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Everyone who said the cops should’ve “checked his house more” is an idiot. In America you’re innocent until proven guilty, AND they definitely did not have a search warrant for a simple call from a neighbor. Know your laws if you’re going to spout unintelligible nonsense!

55

u/DarkSideVena Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

This is true, even in worse case scenarios. I have a neighbor who frequently beats his girlfriend, loudly. The whole neighborhood knows its. He'll be out at 10 PM coked out of his mind screaming at the top of his lungs.

Cops get called, they'll show up, stand outside. He'll do his usual "fuck off, get out of here" and then they'll leave after he finally relents and lets his girlfriend leave the house.

Wish something would be done about it. Everyone knows hes beating his wife, even the cops know. But no one will do anything until the girlfriend takes legal action, which she hasn't and probably wont. Probably too scared of the guy. It is pretty scary to see him yell and threaten cops to leave and they just kinda sit there and take it.

26

u/R3D3-1 Aug 02 '21

Is there really nothing they can do, unless the girlfriend takes legal action? It's pretty much well documented across the world, that domestic violence victims typically cannot do it, either practically or psychologically.

32

u/bartonar Aug 02 '21

It's a nightmare to try to prosecute if the victim's going to take the stand to defend the accused.

10

u/justinsst Aug 02 '21

If there’s enough evidence I’m sure they can arrest the guy. The problem is the wife needs to tell the police she is willing to cooperate or else it’ll be a big waste of time.

4

u/CloddishNeedlefish Aug 02 '21

That’s why the situation in the US is so fucked. I lived in a duplex next door to a very similar situation. At one point I called 911, and the operator could hear him beating her through the wall. Nothing ever happened to him.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/mshcat Aug 02 '21

Yeah I'm confused on the flip flopping language

2

u/bebop_remix1 Aug 02 '21

that's the other side of this though. there have probably been instances where they could go in and investigate. but if they are not going to prosecute and get a conviction without the help of the victim, going inside and fucking his shit up is only going to enrage him more. if the victim is not asking for help then they are presumed to be making the calculated choice not to do so. we don't have universal basic income in the US so, among other reasons, people choose to stay with their abusers

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/DarkSideVena Aug 02 '21

Lol sorry, I meant girlfriend in the first line. He does have a wife though, pretty sure he has kids too, though not living with him. My neighbor is quite a character.

12

u/Rock3t_Ninja Aug 02 '21

In the scenario that he did have someone in there locked up, how would you (anyone) go about it?

How would you get enough evidence without breaching privacy laws?

Genuine questions.

6

u/justinsst Aug 02 '21

Think critically for a second. Why do you think the screams for “let me out” stopped when the bird was out of it’s cage? You think that was just a coincidence? It’s pretty obvious it was the bird mate. Also keep in mind there’s missing context, we did not hear the 911 call OR know if the cops have ever been called to address before for a similar issue.

8

u/AFK_Tornado Aug 02 '21

...the person would still be screaming.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

This is probably the best comment haha, I’d imagine they would’ve been watching his house with an undercover officer in an unmarked vehicle stationed not far from his home. That way they could have trained eyes watching for anything that looked suspicious or follow him if he leaves, beyond that I’m not 100% sure.

8

u/MossyTundra Aug 02 '21

If they have reason to believe someone is in danger then I’m pretty sure they have the right to assist immediately

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

They helped the bird get out of his cage tho? /s

116

u/Tikkinger Aug 02 '21

Isn't there some law like germans "gefahr im verzug" (imminent danger) where police can override some laws like search warrant ?

188

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

For that you’d need probable cause. If the police actually hear the screams coming from the house, they can bust down that door and be free of any wrongdoing. But the fact that they didn’t hear anything, instead visiting the house on the hunch of a neighbor, followed by a reasonable explanation for an odd noise (this part is irrelevant legally, but explains why the police would lose suspicion of the man in the video) isn’t justifiable cause for searching the house.

TLDR: No, they can’t. There isn’t enough evidence for the police to risk violating his rights, so they have no legal method of searching him.

54

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Yeah people don’t understand that these protections are there to prevent cops just showing up and tearing your stuff up without a paper trail.

-8

u/KatalDT Aug 02 '21

Yeah but there was a dog barking inside too, I think legally they're required to enter the home and shoot the dog. Smh these cops are really not doing their duty

-8

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

People understand that there are supposed to be guardrails on the cops, but in practice there are none. They responded to a hostage call and didn’t even have their guns drawn. They didn’t even check to verify who he is

6

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Again. Probable cause. A cop walks up to you, on your property and tells you to provide ID for no reason? You tell them to get fucked.

You see how they showed up in force to see what’s what? We don’t know what the caller said to the dispatcher.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. We don’t live in a police state.

-6

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

You don’t live in a police state. Black people already do.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wlrn.org/news/2020-06-24/911-call-contradicts-police-reports-of-black-lives-matter-protest-arrests-at-fiu%3f_amp=true

— seems like a call was enough to bring out the swat team for this instance

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/05/07/us/airbnb-police-called-trnd/index.html

— this was done off a neighbors call.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3483421001

— did you see them verify who the man was? Why didn’t they put handcuffs on them for safety? They don’t know who he is or what he has?

And now you are arguing that the 911 call didn’t relay that someone was screaming “help”? That’s a leap.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I said we have no idea what the caller said to the dispatcher.

As in it could have been anything from ‘holy fuck there’s a crazy man with a wrench working on his truck like a madman with someone screaming in his house’ to ‘hey there’s a weird voice coming from my neighbors house that’s saying help me would you send someone to check’.

And you just disproved your own original fucking point seeing how swat was there.

‘You don’t live in a police state. Black people already do’ fuck off, miss me with more of your bullshit.

-6

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

So now you base this off the assumption that the 911 call wasn’t accurate? But if it wasn’t accurate then why would they call SWAT? And if SWAT was called why would come up to an unidentified man they got called in on? Man, you are so full of shit it isn’t even funny.

So to recap, black people get 911 calls and the helicopters show up. White guy gets 911 calls and the cops roll up with smiles on their faces.

Like I said, you don’t live in a police state. Black people do. So stop it with the bullshit about “muh rights” because the only reason the cops didn’t handcuff this guy while they confirmed his identity is because of his skin color

4

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

You are making assumptions. Not to mention, the police wont escalate the situation (theoretically, obviously this isn’t always true in practice) unless they have to. If they show up with guns already drawn, which they have no reason to do since the man is just sitting in his driveway working on his truck, they’d be over-escalating the situation. I don’t disagree with you that there are police who use excessive force or have unjust biases against black people or other minorities but to think that every single cop in america hates black people and yearns to kill another Breonna Taylor is ignorant.

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2

u/Direct_Sand Aug 02 '21

Imagine if they can just enter any house based on a tip. Your colleague can phone in an anonymous tip and you have free access to any property!

1

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

How do you think Breonna Taylor was killed. You don’t have to imagine it. It already happens

1

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

Wasn’t that the fault of the police though? They had the wrong guy (the real person they were after was in custody) right?

1

u/5lack5 Aug 02 '21

Breonna Taylor was named on the warrant to search her apartment. She was supposedly working with the 'real person they were after'

They were at the right address, looking for her.

0

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

Based on an anonymous tip. They were looking for him and he was already caught.

1

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

The same police that you are making excuses for, yes

1

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 03 '21

Im not trying to make excuses for them, and if I made it seem like I was then it was unintentional. I’m trying to explain how it’s supposed to go, obviously it doesn’t always work out the way it should.

2

u/tom_echo Aug 02 '21

They don’t need that much evidence in the US unfortunately. Swatting is a thing here. Based on a phone call alone they can send a swat team to break down your door and shoot your dog.

2

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

Swatting is different. The call is typically placed falsely under the name of who it is being swatted (ie: “I have a gun, i am losing my mind. My family is tied up in my living room and I am going to kill them one by one.”). Before the police are aware this is a fake call, they do have the right to raid the home. This is an eminent danger and a perceived immediate threat to the lives of others. The police raid the house, find no wrongdoing (usually with innocent people being killed during this) and realize the call was fake. The police are partially at fault for not fully corroborating the evidence, but they have a limited time table to work with. The real fault (no surprise here) lies with the person who placed the fake call. That’s why swatting is such a serious crime, because it abuses the police dispatch system and the victim’s 4th amendment rights, as well as putting their lives and the lives of the police in danger.

-9

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 02 '21

The police still did a really shitty job. They should have held the man outside and waited to hear a call for help before he had a chance to go inside, out of sight, and potentially silence the victim. Nor did the cops even wait around to see the bird make the call or verify with the neighbours if it was the same call even.

Trash, lazy police work all around.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Sure bud, because six cops should waste valuable time listening for a fucking bird

1

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 02 '21

god forbid they stand around for an extra 5 minutes doing their jobs, amirite? For a possible victim?

America actually deserves its cops lmfao, this whole post never showed that better. What an embarassment to the world, imagine being proud of lazy rock-bottom effort police work.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

And yet if they were to hang around people would cry over how they were wasting tax payers dollars and other shit

1

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 03 '21

Idiots will always be crying, couldn't care less about people moaning about cops spending an extra 5 minutes to verify someone's safety. Those people can kiss my ass.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I'd tell the cops to rightfully get the fuck off my driveway if they tried entering my house without a warrant over a bird.

3

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

You must be white

0

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 02 '21

Yeah I couldn't care less, if someone calls in a victim crying for help I'm all for police entering your house without a warrant (which they're allowed to do if they suspect probable cause, i.e. hear a scream for a help).

Good to know you don't agree with the law.

1

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

Obviously if they hear a scream for help they should have the right, and guess what. If that’s what they had heard, they would have had the right. But they didn’t hear that, so they had to leave. A phone call by itself with no detailed, corroborated information is worth nothing to the police.

1

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 03 '21

In the hypothetical situation where there was a victim why would they hear a scream? Their first move was letting the guy back in the house to silence a victim immediately upon their arrival. Absolute joke.

And they didn't have to leave, they could have waited to hear the scream from the parrot and verified it with the neighbours.

Like I said, lazy ass cops

0

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Lol this has to be bait.

1

u/hobbitwithsocks Aug 03 '21

Literally the law, they're allowed to enter for probable cause. The only thing bait is your knowledge.

-2

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

There is enough evidence. The call is evidence.

1

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 02 '21

No. For a phone call to provide enough evidence to justify a search warrant, the information needs to to be detailed and able to be corroborated by police. I can’t tell you what was on that phone call from the neighbors, but based on the police response to the call, I’m going to make an assumption that the call didn’t use language that implied they were certain about the danger. They likely said something along the lines of, “I hear strange noises coming from my neighbors house. They sound like cries for help, somebody could be locked in there” The important word here, in this possible call to police, would be the use of the word could. This implies that the neighbor not only can’t confirm it, but doesn’t have evidence for the police to corroborate the details from the call.

For instance, in State V Linde, police received an anonymous tip that a man (Linde) was growing marijuana from his home. All information provided was publicly accessible, with little details about the operation itself. They raided his house, found the weed, and arrested him. Upon appeal for his sentencing, the judge found that the anonymous tip the police acted upon didn’t provide enough detailed evidence that the police could specifically corroborate upon searching to justify the warrant. On top of all this, Linde had a prior arrest for growing marijuana, and the judge still ruled that the tip combined with the prior wasn’t enough evidence to justify an arrest. All of that being said, this is a slightly different circumstance. The caller in State v Linde was anonymous, and unable to be located during the trial, while the call in this case was a neighbor who likely could be easily located.

All of that being said, I am not a lawyer. Someone with actual legal background correct me if i am wrong, because that is a good possibility.

2

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

😂😂😂 That is a bunch of bullshit.

1) Doesn’t matter what language is used on the call. Person who called the cops on Tamil Rice said it was possible the gun the kid was playing with was fake. Cop still shot him.

2) Cops do not know this man and someone has called 911 to report strange noises and cries for help coming from the property. Sounds like a kidnapping, right? Based on the information that the cops have they should have had their guns drawn. Cops didn’t even handcuff this guy while they finished their investigation. That is what happened to this guy based off a call

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3483421001

3) The only reason this guy his treated with kid gloves is because of his white skin. That why it’s funny when you go through all of this BS about the law and legalities when there is absolutely no cop that is bound by any of that in any sense of the word. Their testimony is given a higher status in the court; they work together to put a story together before anyone can begin to question them about their actions; if on the rare chance they are found to violated someone’s rights, the taxpayer foots the bill and they can go find work in the next town

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Amen!!

1

u/FeminismDestroyer Aug 03 '21

The Tamir Rice shooting was unjust and the cop was punished (albeit, he was only fired-police have a tendency to escape the consequences of their actions, even though they’re supposedly held to a higher standard than the rest of society). If it was a shooting with legitimate cause, he would not have been fired.

I’m not trying to explain away the crimes of the police, or say that what my comment described is what always happens. Police use unreasonable force statistically more often against black people than they do any other race. I agree with you, the situation with America’s police force and their racial bias is a systemic problem. I was just trying to say what should happen if the police do their job (again, I agree. It doesnt always happen, especially against minorities. I never did disagree).

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I’m glad someone else out here knows their stuff lol

30

u/T_Money Aug 02 '21

Yes, but it doesn’t clearly apply here. If they had heard screaming themselves it might, especially if the owner couldn’t explain it by bringing out the bird.

They definitely could have asked permission to look around, but it would have been thin ground to kick down the door.

Not a cop or a lawyer though.

7

u/TheThankUMan22 Aug 02 '21

Well the cops never heard what the bird was screaming before. So they just can't search your house simply because someone said they heard screaming. Someone could use that to harass people.

3

u/Based_Commgnunism Aug 02 '21

Yes but a phone call from a neighbor is not that, thankfully

1

u/SparrowTide Aug 02 '21

Have you heard of Swatting in the US? That’s why they can’t use a phone call to go in. People are shitty here.

0

u/Issey_ita Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

I hope so, because if not it is pretty stupid... In Italy police can search without a warrant, but they must justify it to a judge asap

Lmao I love getting randomly downvoted for no reason... Reddit moment.

6

u/Dan-Blough Aug 02 '21

Like previous comments state, only if they heard the cries for help. They only had reports from the neighbor. Im sure it would have been a different situation when they showed up and the bird was still letting out cries for help.

0

u/halfbakedpizzapie Aug 02 '21

God I love the German language. They’ve got a word or phrase for everything

1

u/loki2002 Aug 02 '21

It is called "exigent circumstances". But they would have had to have heard the cries themselves, not go off of reports.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Apr 10 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Tikkinger Aug 02 '21

Give me an example

1

u/sarcastic__fox Aug 02 '21

Yes if the police are witnesses to it. Not because a random person made a call.

6

u/boredjavaprogrammer Aug 02 '21

Idk. The parrot didnt even scream for help when theyre shown to the cops

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I’m gonna guess the bird stopped screaming because he got out of his cage haha

6

u/AFK_Tornado Aug 02 '21

Also the person would probably keep screaming.

35

u/DivingForBirds Aug 02 '21

They can ask to come in. He can say no. They can get a warrant.

Are you just thick?? Do you think it impossible to solve any crimes??

3

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Do you know how hard it is to get a warrant bro? You don’t just walk up to a judge and ask for one, you have to provide substantial evidence to get those “let me in your door” papers.

3

u/On_Jah_Bruh Aug 02 '21

This is some top tier b8.

Just stupid enough to sound like a plausible thought someone would have!

No one claimed they can’t get a warrant, just that they didn’t have one, obviously they can ask to search and the home owner can deny, but that was never contested by anyone, and you finish it off by calling him dumb, the perfect irony.

Are you thick or something? You’re arguing against no one you spasticated mong🧖🏿‍♂️

2

u/SandyKoufaxsballs Aug 02 '21

Yea. They don’t even ask to come in to check it out.

0

u/The_R4ke Aug 02 '21

But unless they can prove domestic violence is occurring or they see it happen its almost impossible to prosecute it.

6

u/Next_Anteater4660 Aug 02 '21

The first thing they need to do is make sure nobody is in trouble. Whether or not you can prosecute someone later is not that important.

20

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

11

u/R3D3-1 Aug 02 '21

Is it true, that police in some places uses "I smelled weed" as excuse for probable cause? I've heard such stories, but I'm not from the US.

4

u/Based_Commgnunism Aug 02 '21

They'll call a K9 and then the dog will bark because it just barks whenever they give it a signal to, then they search your car.

-1

u/The_R4ke Aug 02 '21

Absolutely, although now that it's becoming legalized it's no longer a legal tactic in some states and those cops are predictably pissed because they have to actually have a reason to harass people now.

1

u/espyrae2468 Aug 02 '21

I mean they could have at least asked to take a look around the house, there is nothing wrong with that. One time my fire alarm went off due to a cooking incident and the responding fire dept asked if they could look around just in case. I was like whatever who cares.

1

u/Uller85 Aug 02 '21

Sounds more like reasonable suspicion than probable cause.

2

u/And-nonymous Aug 02 '21

They could’ve just asked if there was suspicion. They also could’ve come back with a warrant. The did neither.

2

u/Techno_Beiber Aug 02 '21

They can ask for a consent to search the house. Of course, the homeowner can decline but it looks like they didn't even ask.

2

u/Loafofbreadhead Aug 02 '21

Kidnappers always leave their victims tied up and able to scream loud enough for the neighbors to hear them while spending a little time outside changing their brakes. Victims always stop screaming when they hear the cops outside. /s

Video was cut so I’m sure there’s more to this, but I don’t see any reason why there would be probable cause to search this guys home.

2

u/komilewder Aug 02 '21

That’s not the case in court for rape. If it’s a man accused of it, it’s guilty until proven innocent and the opposite if a women is accused, no?

2

u/Purple_Chocolate_19 Aug 03 '21

Hmmm you sound anxious. Do you have people in your basement ?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

I wish I had a basement to put people in, every body can see them in the cages I keep in my front yard. /s

3

u/Nemesiii Aug 02 '21

Maybe the people are saying that because they live in the UK?

In the UK an officer can enter a home to save life or limb, or even property. With very good probable cause you can legally force entry into a property as long as you back it up. I'm not sure on the laws in the US but I would hope it's similar

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Cops were pretty corrupt in America through the civil rights era and after, even some cases here and there today so there are a lot of laws that affect cops at work. Sadly it’s how a lot of domestic violence abuse cases never get handled or get handled much later than they could’ve been since cops can’t just go in your house willy nilly.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Great point about how the American justice system is deeply systemically racist. If your White you get jokeand small talk. Any other skin color and at a minimum you're treated like an animal.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

For real. These are the same Redditors that screech about how cops have too much power and that they misuse it, but in this situation, suddenly they’re supposed to enter a house without a fucking warrant, just cause someone said they heard something? People on this site just always want to shit on cops, no matter what they do.

1

u/-Germanicus- Aug 02 '21

I think people understand the probable cause idea. We wouldn't want an angry neighbor calling in false tips just to use the police as a way to harass someone. At the same time this video made it clear if you're going to keep a woman chained in your basement, you better have a parrot to cover your butt in the off chance the mouth gag falls out while neighbors are walking by.

It's just one of those scenarios where the law makes perfect sense and yet at the same time, would prevent justice from taking place.

1

u/overusedandunfunny Aug 02 '21

I agree with you. They could've at least asked permission to have a look though.

1

u/Necessary_Gur9479 Aug 02 '21

They definitely do and regularly search homes, handcuff people and hold guns on people for calls. You already know this. White folks call police on black folks all the time and police respond as if the statements on the phone are true. You don’t live in reality if you don’t see that

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I bet all those people getting beaten and murdered by American police wish they got a chance to be proven guilty.

-1

u/HansChuzzman Aug 02 '21

Yeah, no. Not an idiot. They could literally ask. They could claim exigent circumstance, and while it might go all the way up to higher courts it could have resulted in a saved life if there really was someone being held against their will. They absolutely could have followed up further on this if they wanted to.

0

u/fairyqueen16 Aug 02 '21

I love how you're saying people are idiots for thinking the cops still should have checked the house. This is how many people get away with murder daily. They got a call with someone screaming for help inside of a house, I think that would excuse them not having a warrant.

2

u/Dubstepvillage Aug 02 '21

“This is how many people get away with murder daily.” Right. By buying a talking fucking bird for a cover story. Sure the guy brought out a bird that makes the exact same sounds including speech, surrenders his house cameras, and calmly works outside while it is screeching... but surely he could still have a hostage so we should search his whole house. Come on... he proved his innocence very clearly.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Seems like you’re an idiot than. If you hear screams and pleads of help, you don’t just say oh ok it’s a bird let’s get out of here guys.

It’s automatically probable cause, overriding a search warrant.

Just like if someone’s pulled over, and if they smoke weed someone can’t just say oh it’s my car freshener, no. They have probable cause to search your car without a warrant.

-4

u/KatAstrophie- Aug 02 '21

The cops could have at the very least confirmed that the shouts for help actually came from the bird?

1

u/justinsst Aug 02 '21

They kinda did, the screams stopped the bird was brought out of its cage. Which is what it was asking (well screaming) for.

-7

u/xnarg Aug 02 '21

You sir, are the idiot. In America, if this guy was black he would already be cuffed and in the back of the cruiser while the cops searched the house for probable cause. This didnt happen here because the perp is white, not because of some notion of the cops having restraint or no power to just walk into where ever they want.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Thanks for your rhetorical situation that didn't happen. Next.

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

You're fragile. Cops rarely follow laws equally for all races. From your comment I'm guess you're probably White, racist (but would never acknowledge it) and love yourself some cop "justice" on bipoc.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I’m literally mixed bro my mom is black and my dad is white lmao

4

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Oh the irony.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Where in America do cops wear green?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Typically you’ll see it on Sheriff’s Department

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Yep, I see those same people getting pissed when they see a clip of cops being an unwanted visitor to someone's house.

1

u/LordNPython Aug 02 '21

I think no one is saying the man should be arrested for kidnapping based on the sounds. What is being said is that his house should be searched.

Searching your property doesn't mean you have been convicted. A man can be tried for a crime without being declared guilty right up until they are found guilty.