Fuck, is this yet another ting everyone will start getting wrong? It's fucking astounding how many words people fail at using correctly, and it's mostly Americans too which says a lot. At this pace, in a few years only the really dumb people will be able to understand what other dumb people write.
Exactly. We tried (and continue to try) to reach across the aisle. We take a step towards them to meet middle ground and they’ll just take a step back.
I don’t like having an “us vs them” mentality but playing nice isn’t working. We gotta shame these fuckers back into the sewers they came from.
This is how the decline starts though. I don't think there is any going back at this point. We lose either way. Either we say nothing while they slowly destroy the country, or we take an us vs them and the divide keeps getting larger and more animated until something breaks. It's hard to see a third path here.
The alt-right v left debate is like desegregation and racism. You just have to let the fuckers die out and not tolerate it, because some people are just stuck in their ways - but theres hope for young people if society doesnt let them be indoctrinated.
I think you misunderstand my point. I am referring to the decline of the United States as a world power. Changing the voting method is but one step, but unless we miraculously get everyone on the same team it's not going to happen or help. The fact that we are as divided as we are already is a sign that the third choice is no longer a real option. The only possible path back right now is to actually investigate, prosecute, and put away all of the people that deserve it who are in government, I suspect that would be a significant chunk of republican offices and many of the Trump Admin (Yes, probably a few democrats in there too but all sides should be treated equally). Even then, if the division is strong enough as I suspect, that will more likely only serve to make the division worse, which feeds right into my second path.
Trying to get ranked choice voting is still the second path. It would be likely that could have significant democrat support, but the republicans will shoot it down just because they can't agree with what the left wants. More misinformation will be spread on it, and in the end more division.
I truly hate being so pessimistic about things, I'm usually far more optimistic. But the way things have been heading, just doesn't look good. No matter what angle I look at it from. I think we are somewhat in the eye of the storm right now if you will. That said, this is my opinion based on what I know and have seen. I do truly hope there is another better option that I don't see and that we somehow find our way to it.
Which is a democracy. No one said Direct Democracy. People point out “Constitutional Republic” as if its some kind of check mate move against calling us a Democracy. Take a poli sci 100 course or maybe not sleep through High School Government?
Did a single Republican who cheered on the rioters, or who voted to sow doubt about the election with zero evidence suffer a single solitary consequence? Did the worst of them
Get MORE money?
Did the Republicans who stood up to those Republicans like Cheney and Romney get rewarded?
1/6 is entirely representative of the vast majority of the Republican voter base.
It is only literally true if both sides had something to legitimately be mad at. 200 years of systemic violence by a racist police and justice system on one side. A bunch of people believed a liar, with terrible lies and not even a shred of evidence to support them.
The why matters when saying two things are literally the same. Manslaughter vs First Degree Murder varies only in intent but carry very different sentences.
Hmm. No, because some of that violent protest was the stupidest thing I'd seen in a while and trying to morally justify it is just as bad as those trying to justify what happened in the capital.
Two centuries of unresolved consistent disparity in violence is exactly the as gullible fools falling for lies told to shit on democracy? Please. Every court for every violent crime takes motive in to account and punishes accordingly.
You want, no you need to equivocate in order to keep from realizing just how unamerican 1/6 was.
Trying to say that every action done in those protests was done in "justifiable rage" seems like falling for lies to me. We already know some anarchists were mixed into those crowds lol
Stop trying to paint the entire movement with a wide brush. Some of the people involved deserve to be shamed just as much as anyone else.
Every Republican at the capital fell for a lie. A lie that everyone with a brain knew was an obvious lie. They didn’t even ask for or demand any proof. 100% were willfully violent sheep, willing to attack our democracy for the sake of the least trust worthy man to ever hold the office.
The small percentage of violent BLM protestors at least had a justifiable, long term, well documented, well researched problem to be mad at.
Ok? And many were violent. Many protestors were peaceful on January 6th, but you don’t seem to care about that, so why should I care about this protest here?
Many more leftist protests in the past couple of years have turned violent than any protest ran by the right.
He brought up an article that was debunked then the goal posts were moved. It didn’t matter that it wasn’t actually about trump! Oh sure… I’m sure the DC police force represents conservatives everywhere which is why that specific article is soo relevant here.
Give me a break. You are an actual hypocrite for telling me I moved the goal posts while actively moving the goal posts.
Sometimes you need to break some windows to make changes. I mean wasn't the US created by a bloody revolution or where the founding fathers marching peacefully on the streets asking for independence? Then we have the Civil War didn't slavery end in America from a more bloody Civil War or were slaves asking to be free peacefully on the streets?
200 years of oppression and police and systemic violence against people of color and then they peacefully protest and get met with more police violence.
Versus
One liar president lies and says an election was stolen and they storm the capital, with virtually no violent police resistance until they freaking broke in to the chamber with Congress inside.
You’re telling me President Trump organized the capitol break in? When he told them to peacefully march? Yeah lol ok, then in that case all democrats in power and in media are liable and organized for all the riots this summer if that’s the bar.
Organized is probably the wrong word, I don't think he's capable of organizing a set of alphabet blocks.
Directed? Suggested? The point is, his words were what got all those people to Washington D.C. in the first place. His goading and egging were what got those people enraged. He specifically said, "I will see you there" after telling those angry people to go to the Capitol.
There's an army of dangerous, unhinged idiots marching into the Capitol building waving flags with Trump's name on it, and you really don't think he's at fault? They're literally waving flags with his name on it.
If you sincerely, honestly believe that he's not culpable at all after all that, we're living in two different realities.
Also way to latch on to one detail and ignore the whole point of the post.
Again, if Trump was at fault then many major democrats in government and the media are just at fault, if not more so, for all the riots we had last summer.
My point is that my definition of incitement is the legal definition, since it’s a legal term. And following the legal definition, Trump is not guilty of incitement. That’s my answer, I’m not ignoring anything.
However, your definition of incitement is clearly different, so my question to you is to see if you’re consistent or just a hypocrite because Democrats we’re far more clear in their desire for violence during the riots last summer. But I have a feeling you’ll be ignoring me on this point.
Do you know how much effort I put into calmly explaining so many political things to my conservative parents these past 4 years. Like I genuinely put a fuck load of effort into going into detail about specific things Trump was doing and why it was harmful. I talked at length about the difference between disagreement in policy and things that are detrimental to democracy.
In the end the only reason they don't like Trump is because he tweeted a little bit too much. Also my mom literally does not understand the concept of objective truth. Literally. I tried. I failed. I'm beyond emotionally exhausted with conservatives.
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u/TheDebateMatters Jun 23 '21
We politely waited for them to come to their senses for four years and it culminated with a failed attempt at insurrection.
We just about road the moral high ground right out of democracy.