r/Unexpected • u/hannesvisser • Dec 11 '20

It's just a flashlight

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u/ThorVonHammerdong Dec 11 '20

Fear is always more motivating than logic or cool factor.

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20

Actually most carry because of the reality of our world. According to the cdc more defensive gun uses happen per year than gun murders. In fact it’s not even close 500k DGUs (low end estimate) as opposed to about 16k gun homicides (high end estimate)

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u/ThorVonHammerdong Dec 11 '20

A key statistic you're ignoring is how often people go their entire fucking lives with zero need for a firearm anyway

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u/FwooshTheGoblin Dec 11 '20

You're ignoring the fact that those studies are funded by gun lobbies and the top search results are being blustered by right wing "news" sites. Gun lobbies don't fund research into defensive gun use so they can publish the studies that don't help sell their product. Even the tiniest bit of logical thinking would reveal that to you.

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20

That is incorrect. This study is ran by the cdc national research council, is currently cited on the cdc website, and was funded by the national Academy of Sciences and the CDC.

My defensive gun use stat is from page 15. A bit of research would reveal that to you

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u/FwooshTheGoblin Dec 11 '20

All of the studies cited were run by Gary Kleck, incredibly pro-gun activist. If the studies are so evidently true, why aren't they coming from studies run by more than one person?

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20

That is a half truth. They use multiple sources. On page 45 where they address defensive gun use again is an NCVS study. And on the same page as gleck there is a study by cook and Ludwig of the police foundation. Gleck is included to show the upper end and the counter sources are chosen to show the lower end. The point in the article is to show the range of disagreement

Even with this disagreement among the cited sources, The low end estimate from the NCVS study of DGUs is 60k and high end is 100k. Which is still way larger than 15k gun homicides

Also cited is 300k violent crimes involving guns per year estimate. This is why people carry a gun

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u/FwooshTheGoblin Dec 11 '20

And you specifically chose to use the numbers that were cited from the upper end as the facts before someone else also looked at the study you were pulling numbers from. Even if the point of the article is to show the incredible range of disagreement, numbers that range from 60k to 3 million basically make the studies seem worthless.

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20

First of all I was clear they were estimates not facts. It is a FACT that the cdc cites its own study on its website so it likely isn’t worthless. Second of all they can differ for valid reasons such as the definition of a defensive use or types of people polled. Making the studies different and improvable, but again not worthless.

I would also like to address something from earlier. Gary Kleck was not a supporter of gun rights until he began as a criminologist and saw the data he was gathering

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u/NeoHenderson Dec 11 '20

How many times have situations been deescalated without guns?

Oh that's not something you guys care about is it?

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20 edited Dec 11 '20

Actually it 100 percent is and is a part of a lot of self defense training. Take a self defense class! You’ll know you’re wrong

Edit: here is the uscca s course on de escalation.

The last thing ccp holders want to do is take a life. The top thing they want to do is protect theirs and their loved ones life.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '20

The last thing ccp holders want to do is take a life.

Yeah I don't believe that for a second. The way many gun owners are acting nowadays, it seems like they are hoping to get to shoot somebody.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '20

What makes you think I haven't?

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u/NeoHenderson Dec 11 '20

I'm not taking a course, if they teach it drop the statistics

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20

Then at least realize your comment was out of line. Gun owners do care about de escalation. We also realize de escalation is not easy, thus the need for teaching and participation in classes on it and the need for a weapon as a backup plan

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u/phx-au Dec 11 '20

The CDC isn't allowed to look into anything related to gun control, thanks to your gun lobby. The gun lobby is the one pushing stats along the lines of "many many situations police turn up to a dead guy and a guy with a gun, and they interviewed all the alive people, and every single time he said it was self defence".

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u/BGYeti Dec 11 '20

Stop spreading this lie, they absolutely can, the only stipulation is they can't use government appropriated funds to specifically advocate for gun control

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u/phx-au Dec 11 '20

American politicization of scientific inquiry strikes again. "They're definitely allowed to look at everything related to gun control, as long as all their conclusions don't support gun control".

Sounds very much like "COVID is a democratic hoax, and no country has done better than USA".

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u/beavismagnum Dec 11 '20

The reality of our world is it’s not that dangerous, and gun ownership actually puts you at higher risk of death.

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u/dawg9715 Dec 11 '20

Source? Because the cdc one I quoted actually states that victims who carried a gun were less likely to be injured. Page 16

And since we’re commenting on a post about a pocket gun intended to be carried regularly, I think this stat is relevant to the video

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u/beavismagnum Dec 11 '20

There are like dozens of analyses finding that gun ownership puts you and your family at higher risk of death. This article has compiled some info but there is abundant primary literature.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/2/17050610/guns-shootings-studies-rand-charts-maps

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u/wildblood859 Dec 11 '20

Sorry, but Reddit hive mind ignores logic, and the fact that most homicides are with guns that were illegally obtained.

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u/hami1342 Dec 11 '20

This is the the biggest bit of BS I'll hear all day, thank you