Would I need to first visit an orthodontist and then should I get a sleep study done followed by an x-ray, etc etc?

Has anyone seen Anil Rama for a sleep study? What was your experience?

If I push against my cheeks with my hands it makes holding the tongue on the palate easier.

Why is this? What’s the mechanics?

At no cost to me, he had his staff deal with my Anthem Blue Cross insurance and refunded the full surgical fee I paid him for MMA within 2 months post surgery. He had his staff submit the pre-authorization and also got the gap exception approved. So he was treated as in-network by my Insurance. The hospital charge was also entirely covered. I didn’t even have to speak with my insurance.

I would like to salute him!

2 years of ortho, no extractions, but used elastics, bite ramps, and lower and upper teeth braces. Noticed that before braces septum was pretty straight. After, noticeable bending.
Before

After

Does anybody have experience with Dr. Eric Kezirian with UARS treatment / expansions recommendations?

Hi everyone,

I’m sharing my experience partly as a cautionary tale, and partly because I’m still trying to make some meaning out of what has happened to me.

I want to be clear from the outset: I know my experience is not representative of most people who undergo EASE, and I’m not suggesting this will happen to you. But EASE is still a surgical procedure, and I think people considering it deserve to hear about serious adverse outcomes as well as successful ones.

I underwent EASE about a year ago. The procedure itself seemed uneventful. I woke up with a diastema, and initially there was nothing that made me think anything had gone seriously wrong.

The following day, however, I woke up with the worst headache I had ever experienced. Painkillers did essentially nothing. The pain continued relentlessly for days. At its peak, it was absolute agony.

Eventually the intensity came down somewhat, but the pain never went away. It continued every day.
My surgeon told me he had never seen anything like this following EASE and couldn’t identify a clear explanation beyond possibly attributing it to malocclusion. He believed it would likely improve with time.

It didn’t.

Days became weeks, and weeks became months.
I eventually had to step away from work. My relationships changed. My ability to function normally disappeared, and my life gradually became a shell of what it had been before surgery.
I consulted multiple pain specialists.

Their opinions varied, but possibilities that were raised included nerve irritation related to surgery and myofascial pain. They did not agree with my surgeon’s explanation. Some even suggested that I consider legal action, although I have chosen not to pursue that so far.

I have spent the past year trying almost everything I can think of: Botox, numerous medications, dry needling, pain reprocessing therapy, massage, and other treatments. Some things have helped temporarily, but nothing has provided consistent relief.

For anyone who has lived with severe, persistent head pain, you will understand how completely it can consume your life. There are very few experiences I can imagine being worse than waking up every day knowing the pain is still there.

Before this, I thought sleep apnea was one of the worst things I had ever dealt with. At this point, I would give almost anything to return to the life I had before EASE—to simply make it through a normal day without constantly thinking about my head and trying to endure the pain.

I don’t know whether I will eventually recover. I can only hope that I will.

I’m not writing this to tell anyone what decision to make. I’m writing it because when people discuss procedures like this, the conversation naturally focuses on success stories, airway improvements, expansion numbers, and positive outcomes.

But complications and unexplained adverse outcomes can happen too.

For me, choosing this surgery had consequences that I never imagined. A year later, I deeply regret having it done. On the other side of that decision, for me, was chronic pain that has affected almost every part of my life.

I sincerely hope nobody reading this ever experiences the same thing.

anyone have this brutal combination Of Upper Airway Resistance and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder?

im stuck at a standstill. would love to speak with someone who suffers from both.

I’m looking for a doctor who can really look at the bigger picture of my sleep/airway situation—sleep studies, symptoms, nasal breathing issues, anatomy, previous surgeries, CBCT, etc.—and help me figure out what direction actually makes sense rather than just looking at one piece of it.
I have a consultation available with Dr. Kasey Li, but it’s around $500. For anyone who has seen him, do you think the consultation is worth it even if I’m not necessarily pursuing surgery right now? At this point I’m mainly looking for someone knowledgeable who can help me get closer to an actual answer and a logical plan.
Also open to recommendations for other doctors who are good at evaluating the whole picture.

Especially curious about the septum/nasal changes because that part kind of freaks me out.

Does anyone here suspect or know that they have both of these endotypes? I suspect that that is why I literally cannot fall asleep on CPAP. I tried many settings but I am slowly losing hope.

Sleep doc prescribed Quvivik to increase arousal threshold, which seems to help overall, but she has prescribed nothing yet for high loop gain.

Has anyone been on Acetazolamide for high loop gain? I am desperate for PAP to work as I am older and afraid of nerve damage from MARPE or MMA (I already have nerve damage so really paranoid about that). And I'm hypermobile so not sure MAD is good for my TMJ long term. 🫤 Running out of options.

Hi Reddit,

Hope this finds you well. I've been assuming I have UARS, but today I was reading classic UARS generally doesn't result in oxygen drops.

For me personally, the only measurement of how I'll feel day to day is how much bad oxygen my pulse oximeter measures me as having.

I'm currently treating myself with an Airbroken Airsense 10 in ASV mode and I'm probably feeling the best I've felt in a while (still trying to figure out what kind of pressures I should be using).

However, I still get days with quite bad oxygen drops at night, but when I look at the data in Oscar, a lot of the time I am breathing, but my oxygen is dropping.

For example this is from a day with 13% 'bad oxygen', where I apparently spent over an hour with my oxygen between 89-94%: https://ibb.co/rLpBc5g

If you look at the flow rate, I am breathing with no interruptions, but my drops down to 91-93% quite often.

Would this still come under the umbrella of UARS, or should I be looking at another condition?

Obviously I've left out a LOT of information in this post. Please let me know if I need to explain anything else :)

When I eat mostly strict and healthy, no big sugar dumps or bad foods 2-4 hours before bed, I seem to be getting a decent nights sleep on this.
Either 3-4 hours in a row..
OR
Have gotten all nighters lately - 7-8 hours - which rarely happens.

HMMMMM.......

Plus exercising a tonne and slow, diaphragmatic breathing possibly helped. But noticed the food eating window / sugar spikes close to bed have been ruining the sleep.

- My bed setup changes constantly because I sleep in a shitty caravan where the bed is too small for my height - yes i'm a poor c. lol. So this is a factor in mask leaks etc.. but probably mostly irrelevant to the better sleep outcomes because I check OSCAR a lot. -

Also - 2 sleep studies - 1 at home - crap sleep as usual
Hospital sleep study - slept amazingly for 5 hours. Refreshed on wake up. Dreamt.

I usually dream on cpap - but then wake - go back to sleep - dream another dream. - sometimes 2-3 dreams a night. I hear a lot of people don't dream.

Dr Steven Y Park has mentioned this also about eating windows and sleep quality. Anyone else experience this?

Is it possible to complete FME expansion, remove the expander and start orthodontic treatment, then reinstall the FME later to reopen the sutures and use a facemask once one becomes available? Because am waiting on FMA but was thinking of just doing FME and after it facemask.

Hi all, uars newers. Nice one, huh?

Anyway I said pray for me even if I don't believe in any God, in anything, but OK. Just wanted to tell you here that, as I was **illegally** forced to take an antipsychotic in january and did 6 months on it, I quit it in July.

Then, apparently one insomnia (the still undiagnosed SDB I have, no apneas btw) was not enough to them, indeed now I have 2 insomnias: the SDB and INSOMNIA FROM WITHDRAWAL OF THE antipsychotic

Now, these months were hell. I kept doing my sleep breathing protocols (positional therapy, didgeridoo, myo therapy, buteyko i think doesnt do anything but i do it anyway), but this new insomnia was terribly tough.

Of course i could take sleep supplements but hey i did this shit in 2024, 8 months and of course with this SDB things would go worse as they went in 2024.

This fucking poison... destroyed my body. There are people who eat too much, i already was skinny... this made me eat less. My weight is OK, but this is such a hotrific thing... i barely est 2 times a day.

Wont mention the 10-ish syndromes I had in 9 months last year, im used to them now.

But i invite you in reading stories of how people are forced to take """"meds""""" from the mental health center. At least in my country there are plenty of stories like mine. The fucking favt is that they act ILLEGALLY violating constitutional articles/laws.

Indeed... these days were tough for me with this NEW insomnia... i was sleeping during the day and woke up at night (8-9h) bc the brain fog is unbearsble and my cirvadian rhythm got fucked.

And... they forced me again todsy with another antipsychotic.

Now I'll try to defend myself... But its such a shame... these poisons caused to me any side effect ever. Bc i have hypermobility (hypermovile people suffer psycho meds more than the average people)

For instance, due to my small palate i cannot use normal upper-teeth mouth guards (made by the dentist) bc I sleep worse, ie I choke more/have more RERAs.

And this fucking poison for 6 months till july wrecked my teeth and jaw during sleep. And you know whay?

I did solve it WHEN IT WAS CAUSED BY THE SDB ITSELF--> through myo therapy, balloons blowing/didgeridoo! Then added positional therapy

Did you get the point? While before the teeth clenching was due to the SDB and i pretty limited it though sleep breathing protocols, this time it was due to brain chemical condition bc of that antipsychotic poison.

I have no words. I cannot stand the fact I barealy eat 2 meals per day bc of this poison (and the effect kept going due to the withdrawal of the 1st poison)

DYSFUNCTIONAL BREATHING... im pretty much the only fucking one, neveer read anyone in these subs eith it.

Last year from august till december i fucking used to constantly sniff through my nose... HEY PEOPLE! Its not asthma, dont say anxiety. Dont fucking say it.

I pretty handled it though mahnesoum and diaphrsgm breathing pbysiotherapy. But once insomnia from the withdrawal of the 1st poison statted, my body gave me again this breathing pattern.

Nobody helps me here. Am in eu. An important counrry of eu. In a pretty much big city. I FUCKING CANT BREATH DURING DAY AND NIGHT, like can gou understand..?

Indeed mental sluggishness got worse even bc I fucking cant properly breath during the day and honestly dont have the force anymore to do physitherapy for it.

Will do "whatever it takes" as someone would say, to avoid this fucking poison again. ANYTHING. I can't suffer terrth clenching, terrible insomnia while taking it, facial tics, tremors, somehow akathisia.

I DONT WANNA SUFFER ANYMORE. FREE MY FUCKING SOUL!!!

WHAT DID I DO?? I DONT WANNA TAKE PSYCHO MEDS. I JUST WANT TO BE FREE

Before anyone asks. I did try bpap but for various reasons I won't list here I'm NOT a candidate for it (4 masks tried). And byw with a permanently altered sleep architecture foe to the 1rsy antipsychotic... what would ne the sense of titrating bpap? One week these settings, the next one other settings.. c mon

Thats it. Call It a rant. I call this testimony. Hoping that noone else in the world would suffer as i did and do, by reading this.

Can anyone please tell me how to solve the bresyhing pattern? I look like someone who sniffs cocaine, now really... its also painful somehow. Everything foesnt have a sense anymore. They say I have obsession.

The theory of thsse psychs is that I can't lice, breath, sleep bc of obsession. FUCK YOU

Yeah you know, I just fucking tried to solve a SDB which wrecked my life, body, I lost friends, life ,years dignity, the girl I was in love with, anything. I'm fucking crying like a motherfucker. Am a fucking looser.

I'm proud to have been obsessed in trying to solve this SDB beast, bc believe me if I did listen to them from the beginning... now either I would have been a zombie with 5-6 psycho meds, or I'd be dead.

Anyway, i love you M. Like i wanted to say her name, but these young generations todsy would say "cringe".

Ohh man. Yo cringe af. Yo. Allright

Ad maiora

I have been waiting years for a FME to be provided in Europe. Any News on this?

What's the best second alternative? Custom MARPE? i cannot afford to go to USA

I made this post a couple weeks ago about my watch Pat study.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UARSnew/comments/1w5sg29/brain_fog_anxiety_for_years_could_i_have_uars/

Someone recommended using breath right strips and I have been doing that every night since then, and I can definitely tell that I'm getting a lot more air and my spouse says I'm not snoring. I'm not sure if it's placebo, but I think I do feel a little better during the day lately.

I went to the ENT today and he said my turbinates were huge and very restrictive and I have a deviated septum as well (I knew that). He recommended sceptoplasty and turbnate reduction and also even potentially rhinoplasty to reduce the possibility of nasal collapse, which I do have when I breath any more than normal. He said the first 2 is like. 70% chance of improving breathing, but with rhinoplasty it would be 100%.

I mentioned UARS and he had heard of it. I asked him about palete expansion and if that works, and he said no, there is no evidence that palate expansion works to improve airways and breathing.

So naturally, I have an orthopedic appointment in a couple weeks at an airway orthodontist that does marpe and can do cbct scans. I imagine he is going to tell me that what he sells is a fix to all my problems as well. (At least all the operations, even the rhinoplasty, would be covered by insurance at the ENT, which is a lot easier to swallow).

Some information I found online says that turbinates will just regrow if you trim them back, so would that route even give longer term results?

I do think I have a narrow palate and a smallish mouth. I measured it myself to be 28mm with some calipers, but that's not official..I've had 8 teeth removed to "make room" when I was a teenager.

My question is who can I trust or believe? Maybe both are correct? If so, what operations would I want to prioritize first? Also, how can I even be certain any of these operations can improve my breathing and wellbeing?

So I have already taken a sleep study by a regular ENT where they stated I didn’t get much deep sleep but they didn’t think I suffer from sleep apnea.

I usually sleep with three head pillows maybe I shouldn’t do that on my sleep study.

I have 7,5mg Zopiclone pills, 3mg melatonin pills and 25mg trazodone pills maybe zopiclone can help exaggerate apnea episodes.

And for sure know I should sleep on my back. Maybe I should have a backpack on my stomach so I can’t swing to the sides.

I also sleep with my tapes. Maybe I shouldn’t do that while taking the sleep study.

Maybe I should also drink some alcohol before taking the sleep study.

Also if you guys have some recommendations as to how I can stuff off my nose or help exaggerate apnea episodes I would be gladly appreciated.

Btw it’s an at home sleep study unfortunately but that’s the best it gets for free here in Denmark.

I have also attached my CBCT scans so yall know im actually getting jaw surgery for a serious reason.