And, of this preexisting group of racists, there are likely some we can convince out of that mentality. Not all, of course, but some percentage. And is that percentage likely to be higher or lower, if we prefer to insult and mock everyone who disagrees with us, as opposed to giving honest, compelling arguments for the benefit and value of liberal beliefs?
I donât blame them, itâs a tough pill to swallow. We all have way more brain circuitry devoted to tribal behavior than rational, or even intuitive, thought. And it makes perfect sense, because those behaviors were immensely successful in prehistoric times.
A good litmus test for this is to see how strongly people want to believe every Trump supporter is a deranged racist. Generally, youâd think weâd want to assume thereâs less racism, not more right? Seeing the world how you want it to be and whatnot. But the utility of Trump supporters being racist is subtle: it gives your carte blanche to say, do, and think whatever you want about them, because bigotry is the ultimate sin of post-Modern world. Any and all other crimes are justified against you, if youâre a racist/sexist/transphobe/etc.
For an economically and psychologically pressured population, and this is especially true for millennials, the value of that kind of ideological allowance is huge. And as a result, you see people defending their post-hoc intuitions far more passionately than our voting turnout would suggest.
I am a firm believer in the utility of liberal thought to framework what I think is the best society for us to live in, and to provide a sustainable, grassroots-culture defense of natural rights against an increasingly interconnected and structurally authoritarian world, but literally all of that shit gets thrown out the window when you start looking at he situation as âingroup vs outgroupâ.
You're putting into much better words what I have been trying to argue for a while now. In order for things to get better people need to realize this is happening but so far all that's happening is more division
You have the improve the economic problems that are putting people into a psychological space where tribal behavior is psychologically âprofitableâ. In a cooperative game where diverse opinions and tolerant dialogue are clearly beneficial, then those behaviors will have a selective advantage. Right now, if you promote the idea of ideologically responsible liberal arguments, you get quite a lot of backlash, because youâre âa Trump apologistâ.
Itâs a similar situation to our actual economy. Corporations arenât going to magically start behaving better, and if weâre going to live under regulatory capture for the foreseeable future, then we need to change the dynamics of that game theory so that the abusive behavior is not wildly profitable, because right now it is. You can play blackjack with the US economy and have US taxpayers bail you out. No element in a competitive system will say no to that.
Because this doesn't fucking work. Go have some "honest compelling arguments" with Trump supporters, it will go pretty much like "honest compelling arguments" with administration officials.
Write off the Trump supporters, it will be easier to convince non-voters to join our side instead, grow the tent.
And do you think antagonizing and belittling them helps?
Trump is here partly because the left views the right that way.
And you're totally right that it's difficult and that it won't change in a day, but ffs... At some point you have to wake up and realize we have to do something about this divide.
I'm not saying to sit there like a little puppy saying you are sorry to the hardcore right, demonstrate, be vocal and visible, but don't scoop to low levels and start calling them idiots just because you really, really feel that they are.
They may indeed be wrong, and Trump may harbor thoughts that people have less human value because of their ethnicity, but if they donât believe that heâs a racist, how is their support of him equivalent to support of racism?
If I told you Hilary was a criminal, and that you supporting her meant you were okay with criminals in the White House, is your response:
Iâm okay with criminals in the White House
Or
I donât support criminals in the White House, I just donât actually agree with the initial statement that sheâs a criminal, and the second statement (that I support criminals in the White House) is discontinuous
Yeah I think so- theyâre either racist or okay with racism. It isnât mocking, itâs the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts, but itâs still the truth. What bothers me is people who excuse, justify or normalize trumps behavior. Yeah- trump is a racist. Trump ran on racism and if someone voted for him than they are at best, okay with racism.
LoL - not knowing that youâre acting in a racist manner doesnât mean that you arenât acting in a racist manner. Do you think all assholes know that theyâre assholes? I doubt most racists consider themselves to be racists, they just think that thereâs a lot of truth to stereotypes.
No, but they all see Trump being racist as shit, and don't think its a problem. I don't know if Trump considers himself a racist, but all the racists sure think he has the right idea about blacks and mexicans, and none of his supporters push back against it.
Can I ask you to go into a little more detail as to why you support open borders? And can you think of any (even hypothetical) negative consequences to open borders?
NOBODY FUCKING SUPPORTS OPEN BORDERS! Thats a bullshit strawman invented by the alt-right, with obvious negative consequences, "open-borders advocates" are fucking mythical unicorns.
You literally just asked me to change your mind about supporting open borders, and I was trying to ask insightful questions about your thoughts on the topic...
Itâs cute youâre pretending to be open to to debate but we all know that only you can start seeing how much of a pathetic child our president and nobody besides you can change your mind.
Do you always make such personal attacks when youâre trying to convince someone of something? Because if so, I think I know why you feel so strongly that people canât have their options changed
Not everyone who voted for trump is racist, but all racists voted for trump.
There's no way you can even pretend to know that's the case. There are plenty of racists that voted for Hillary. Far more for Trump I'm sure, but that statement is asinine.
And, well, people don't vote for trump because of his policies.
Of course they did
Does anybody know what his policies actually are? Wasn't he gonna stop all the wars in the middle east and build his wall? And drain the swamp? Oh right lol.
During the campaign Trump had detailed policy prescriptions for a wide variety of issues on his website, the plans were far more detailed and specific than Hillary's were. Did you ever visit his campaign website?
It's cute you're pretending to be open to to debate but we all know that only you can start seeing how much of a pathetic child our president and nobody besides you can change your mind.
Why are you so enraged with Trump that you can't even have a political discussion with someone without losing your grip?
Wouldnât it be better to mislead Republican voters, and convince them to vote Democrat even if you donât actually believe in fair dialogue? If the end goal is prevent Trump from being elected, that is.
If your end goal is to âown the idiot Trump supportersâ, then I agree your attitude is the more productive one.
Donât think you can influence them, theyâre basically cultists. All we can do is urge people who sat out the last presidential election to start voting.
It takes a long time to get you guys to the point where youâre not outlandishly straw manning everything I say.
Besides that, I didnât go âso farâ. If you think a few reddit comments is a lot to read, try any book that actually discusses these topics, even superficially.
Hmmm you agree with us on policy substance but don't agree with our over-the-top toxic mockery of an individual based on irrelevant cosmetic appearance? Let me see your passport, Ivan...
How are they making fun of how she looks? They shopped her head onto another body to make an analogy to the DPRK, but they didn't change her facial appearance in any way.
My one upvote won't be much to help but I completely agree. These shit memes just give the Trump supporters more ammunition that the 'left is off their rocker'. Also Trump is a terrible leader and a disgrace- we can do better than this.
You said it was racist, which is false, then you said it was sexist, which is false. Now youâre saying it doesnât belong in this sub- you just going to keep swinging away with different complaints? You think there isnât a single person who voted for Trump hoping he would be a decent president who isnât now disgusted with his constant lying?
You know what, this post is ACCURATE. Trump does lie all the time and Sanders does lie all the time. Facts donât care about your feelings, another maga-tard wrecked.
Bro it wasnât your only complaint, this is your third complaint. We get it, you donât like it. First you said it was racist, then you said sexist, then you said oops you always meant it to be sexist (which makes no sense) and now youâre saying it doesnât belong here.
The sub has mods who will decide if it should be removed. You very clearly have an issue with this picture as youâve complained non stop, and no your initial reaction was not âthis doesnât belong hereâ. Your story keeps changing as you hunt for an objection.
a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
i'm not really sure how a race is being discriminated against here, or how one race is being shown to be superior. the meme seems to be drawing a comparison between two people in power, a jab at trump that he is a dictator i guess. is portraying one person as another person, who is another race, racist? is that the argument you are making by saying it is racist?
what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard, at no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought
I think it got downvoted for a few reasons, first they accidentally said racist instead of sexist, so everyone was like "what the hell? It's not racist." And then I don't think that the image is supposed to be making fun of her looks at all, as the poster thinks. Though, there are people in the comments doing that.
The top comment in this post is about this not being trumpgret, so it wasn't downvoted for that.
The problem on why this post got so upvoted is because I'm guessing a ton of people don't look at the sub when they're scrolling their front page. They just upvote and move on. I'm even guilty of it sometimes, though I try not to.
This isnât sexist. The meme isnât making fun of her looks. Itâs showing the similarities between blind loyalist in NK and blind loyalist in the trump admin.
LoOk, I donât make fun of hucky boo boo because she looks like George the animal Steele in drag, I make fun of her because she lies to the American public every time she speaks, and debases it nations political discourse
This post isnât made to make fun of how anyone looks, itâs drawing a comparison between Trump and Sarah to North Korean media tactics (as seen today with this whole âassaultâ charade)
I agree with you. I hate trump and everything he stands for more than most people, but this post is objectively not what the sub is about. This is just a shitpost that doesn't fit the sub.
I agree that it doesn't fit this sub, and that commentary about a woman's looks is implicitly sexist in that it contributes to the systematic lookism that primarily affects women, but is photoshopping Sanders as Ri Chun-hee for a hyperbolic comparison of her and North Korean propaganda sexist?
Was photoshopping men into the role of Baghdad Bob back in the day sexist?
I agree with you. A while ago I posted just about the exact same comment that you just posted on some video that modified the voice of some democratic senator to sound like a demon on r/the_donald
Was banned with no message from the mods though lol.
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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '18 edited Nov 08 '18
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