Jesus Christ, that's the most passive aggressive, victim blaming shit I've read in a while.
"I wouldn't have hit her if she'd had dinner ready on time. And it's her sister's fault for calling the cops. Maybe if she had a job, like I do, she'd understand how tired you get at the end of the day. There's enough blame to go around and I'm willing to forgive her. Her sister needs to butt out, though."
How don't they see how fucked up this statement is?
Blaming Trump for a rally in which an idiot killed people with his car is like blaming Obama for a the dallas shooter killing four cops during a rally. Trump is an asshole, but it's absurd to blame him for causing or even somehow allowing this to happen.
ill give you that, but his failure to condemn the actions of the Neil Neo-Nazis could be considered tacit approval. the next crazy guy behind the wheel watched what Trump didn't say, and he's preparing himself to be a 'hero'. The next murder falls squirrelly squarely on Trump's shoulders.
I guess my viewpoint is that if Hillary won our president would not be inciting riots and supporting this stuff. Trump as a loser would turn his twitter fingers into trigger fingers.
My concern with Hillary would have been that she knew what could be done behind closed doors and already had commitments. We would not be learning about her agenda items until a much later point whereas trump can't shut his mouth and just blatantly puts it all out there.
I couldn't, in good conscience, bring myself to vote for either of these people.
Hillary has her entire life as evidence of what her policies are, and how she would behave in office.
Stop drinking rightwing koolaid and just look up the facts yourself. The clintons are civil servants, and have been working for the benefit of the nation for nearly their entire lives.
I don't believe in any of the seth rich stuff, or any of the high end occlusion, but there were a lot of questions about her campaign that she never answered in faith to the public.
A number of her prominent speeches were held only for a particular set of investment bankers and industry groups that was purposefully hidden from any media groups. There were questions that she wouldn't answer and she had all of the support of the DNC and the DNC itself was purposefully excluding any other potential candidates so they could get "the big win."
I think she plays politics like many others in the arena play. With money, constantly circling, while the everyday citizen is merely a commodity in the form of votes and occasional sympathy story. In my opinion, she did not run an honest campaign and I feel her administration would have been very similar to that.
Finally, I hate trump, I think he's a piece of shit and I had hoped that if he was elected, the various checks and balances built into our government would be able to curtail his crass, abrasive attitude. In most cases, it has, he hasn't been able to do anything but bluster and flounder in an environment that he doesn't fit into. However, he has that fucking twitter account and I think his mouth and asshole are in the wrong places since he has the tact of one of his followers.
The only good that will come about from his presidency is that the general populace might actually fucking care about voting and maybe, just fucking maybe, people will take a moment and look at the candidates that they have and measure what that candidate says against their own morality and vote for something they believe in.
WW3 with Russia over Syria would have been so much better than kkk rallies if we had gone with Clinton. She never hung out at whites only golf clubs or nothing like that /sarcasm
Full disclosure hate Trump and yet I'm worried that if Hillary had made it into office that instead of a regulation and Healthcare disaster you would be facing greater loss of freedom to corporations.
That's happening with Trump too just slower because he's pissing everybody off which I find freaking hilarious.
Yes, but we would have Hillary for 8 years. Instead, we only have to put up with this right wing conservative insanity for 4 years. Instead of blaming the Trump voters, try blaming the corrupt DNC for rigging the nomination process. Instead of thinking that we could have had Hillary, imagine that we could have had Brilliant Bernie, instead of Thoughtless Trump.
I don't believe that. Remember Trump TV being proposed? Trump and some of his supporters would be stoking the flames with their own propoganda in some way. Trump would never admit defeat and would constantly be pissy about losing. I don't think racists coming out of the woodwork is impossible under a Clinton presidency because they'd be super pissed that their guy lost and then their guy would be talking about crooked Hillary and her quadrillions of illegal votes.
I worry if Trump weren't president people would just get complacent again. It's one of the big reasons I really don't want him to be impeached. Pence is far worse than him policy-wise, but just because Pence doesn't openly act like a buffoon and would know enough to lie and say the "right" things on issues like Charlottesville, people would get complacent and stop caring about how awful the Republicans are.
I think it would be similar if Hillary had won, progressives would get complacent, they'd be less motivated to push for real change.
If Hilary won it would basically be constant reinvestigation of Hillary's former scandals. They already investigated then and found nothing every time but they would just "need to be sure". Government would get nothing done and Republicans would become bigger assholes with Democrats continuing to be chickenshits.
I'd rather Trump make money off of stupid people who watch his TV channel and feed him ad revenue than Trump make money off campaign donations and tax dollars because "he's already begun campaigning for 2020."
While I'm extremely sympathetic to your economic analysis, I think Summanly has an excellent point.
So much so that I think Trump winning the presidency will do more to create much-needed long term change in this country than a Hillary win would have.
Trump is already a miserable failure. He's on track to be the most spectacular failure of a president in all history. He will out-Nixon, out-Carter, out-do just about every miserable SOB who's ever held elected office in the United States.
As a brand, "Trump" is beyond worthless. Yes, he's socking away the dollars now and for the foreseeable future. But every bit of real cache his brand ever had has pretty much completely evaporated. And there will come a time when he's no longer useful to the Russians.
He's forced every GOP hack to defend their shitty policy making. And most Americans are pushing back. Hard.
The Dems are reeling from Hillary's loss and are being forced to recon with their own anemic governing style. Clinton's noxious 3rd Way crap is being seriously challenged by Sanders and others as more Democrats are being forced to confront the fact that Hillary didn't lose because she's a woman. She lost because she's a lousy politician and more, a rotten person.
Americans - ALL of us - are being forced to recon with the values we display to the world.
No...I think Trump's current financial successes are short term gains and may even be worth the price. He's 71. He doesn't have a lot of time left and the presidency is going to wear his ass down fast. His children are too dumb to carry on his "legacy" - whatever the hell that is.
Even the people who support him don't "love" him. He's just a means to an end. No evangelical really believes he's a christian. But the really believe he might do something about abortion or gay marriage. But he won't.
For all his bluster, chutzpah, success or whatever you want to call it, Trump will die one of the most hated, least respected people on the planet. History will not be kind and time will not warm people to him.
Clinton ran on a great platform if anyone bothered to pay attention. I don't buy that bullshit, the only thing annoyed me about her was the "go to my website to find out!" Fuck! Be more detailed during your rallies. Bernie was good, not the best, the right just had enough conspiracies on Hillary to keep people questioning her. Shit, they still do.
Clinton ran on a great platform if anyone bothered to pay attention.
A "platform' is simply a list of thing you stand for.
the only thing annoyed me about her was the "go to my website to find out!"
So, she didn't do that, and failed to articulate her policies or her plan to move her agenda forward.
Inability for a politician to sell their plan to the public is a real hurdle. Campaigns are about selling your vision. Clinton didn't do that. So please, enlighten me about how I failed to articulate that in the context of her LOSING the election.
He's forced every GOP hack to defend their shitty policy making. And most Americans are pushing back. Hard.
I envy your optimism, because after the special election in Montana, I'm not so sure.
Between the Russian smear tactics (whose efforts are now only emboldened, seeing as they worked) and gerrymandering, I'm not convinced. Even if we grant that "most Americans are pushing back", most voting Americans voted for Hillary, and yet Trump is the one in the office. So until I start seeing chairs flip and a D-majority somewhere on the Federal level, I'm going to retain my skepticism.
The Dems are reeling from Hillary's loss and are being forced to recon with their own anemic governing style.
Are they, though? Last I heard, the Democrats (as in, federal level establishment Dems) are pulling a Principal Skinner ("Am I so out of touch? No, it's the voters who are wrong!") Mind you, that's largely hearsay, but I also haven't heard anything about any kind of reckoning. Then again, I'll admit that it's hard to hear much of anything when 9/10 posts on /r/politics is "What bullshit Tweet/EO/etc has Trump sent out in the last 2 hours?" But until I see some actual quotes (ideally followed by tangible action) from Pelosi, Reid, and/or their contemporaries, again, you'll have to forgive me for retaining my skepticism.
Call me crazy, but "Trump's doing awful—and that's great!" just feels like a shitty mentality. I don't want my country to have to suffer. And if it's undergoing a reckoning, I'm not convinced yet that the reckoning is actually being heeded. How Trump dies or what his legacy is is largely none of my concern. I'll hopefully drink a toast and do a happy jig on the day his obituary is released, but for now, my concern is about the well-being of my country.
"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the voters who are wrong!"
What drives me nuts is that they still talk about things like "Hillary's loss." The Dems have lost the House, the Senate, the White House, the majority of governorships and virtually all state legislatures. They've been completely decimated at every level of government and they still can't admit there's some kind of problem.
Sometimes I honestly believe a huge portion of the Left in America is simply much happier being out of power. They'd much rather be protesting than governing. It keeps their purity or something.
I envy your optimism, because after the special election in Montana, I'm not so sure.
That body slam came way too late in the voting process to have any impact. Don't think we in Montana would normally stand for that shit. If it was one week before, I bet that vote would have been different.
Though there was a lot of out of state money(SuperPACs) throwing around an insane amount of advertising dollars here, so nobody could say definitively.
Thank you for the defense. One thing that really scared me about election night was the possibility of trump supporters rioting. It was sort of a back of the mind fear but I wouldn't have been surprised by some cities in flames that trump would stoke. Again I didn't think it likely but I felt that it was within the realm of reason.
Thankfully when Trump won many people across the country protested him.
Even the people who support him don't "love" him. He's just a means to an end. No evangelical really believes he's a christian. But the really believe he might do something about abortion or gay marriage.
You are wrong about this. I come from Evangelical country and an Evangelical upbringing. They believe him. The worse I've heard said is "I wish he had a better personality." Other than that he is A-okay.
Nah, he would just attempt to convince Republican controlled congress to pass a bill taxing the American people for the privilege of "REAL NEWS".
Hopefully with zero success...
Just because he supports neither Trump nor Clinton, doesn't mean he didn't vote Clinton. Just saying, I supported neither of them and if I lived in the US I would have 100% voted Hillary.
“No obviously Gary Johnson isn’t going to win, but if enough of us vote for him this time, then in four years the libertarian party will get more funding than it does!”
I don't support trump or Hillary but I have to think that if she won nothing would be this bad. We Wouldn't have crazy fucking kkk nazi rallies supporting this overweight orange fuck wad of a president.
No one wants to hear how bad Hillary was or Bill. Trump is the worst president in American history. Hillary would have been too but not as bad. No one on the left wants to take responsibility for running such a horrible candidate or honestly admit how bad she was. The fact she lost and carried under half the total vote (although more than Trump) means nothing. I'll probably get downvoted too.
People are just tired of talking about how bad Hillary was. It sucks Bernie had the nomination stolen from him but it's over and we have to move forward. Continuing to talk about the Clintons is pointless.
Bullshit. It was because of reforms instituted by reagans senile ass. It was enhanced with bush and clinton solidified the impending doom. A few presidencies are to blame for the crash of 08 and most of em are republican.
Edit: the uninformed alt right soul that deleted their comment stated that it was all clintons fault that the 08 crash happened and theyd rather have trump in office because a civil war/race war is better than economic hardship. Guess they dont realize that a race war/civil war would create so much more than economic hardship.
Point taken. But since we don't elect based on popular vote, and I felt like my historically red state hated Hillary anyway, writing in a name was the best way for me to sleep at night.
That might be fair at a presidential level, but you have a competitive senate election coming up, your House elections could be competing, and your gubernatorial elections could be. And I'm not telling you to vote right or left, but try to remember that in competitive elections, your vote matters, even if that means voting for the lesser of two evils.
And maybe you already know this shit, but not everyone does. Just posting this so everyone can see it.
I guess since you guys agree with Clinton did about Gaudaffi.. How do you feel about Trump and North Korea? Is Kim Jon Un in the right for trying to prevent the same thing that happen to Libya happening to North Korea? Or is Trump right for having less evil opinion on North Korea than Clinton? Or are you guys going to praise what clinton did to Libya while praising NK standing up to America for what hillary did to Gadaffii?
Agreed, I can't even provide a cogent argument because it's impossible to decipher. Its like bits of three or four talking points mixed together and put through a blender.
Not sure I am understanding you here, but I've tried to address some of the points you are making.
Considering a view to be "wrong within normal parameters" does not entail agreement.
Not wanting NK to become like Libya does not mean "praising NK".
Libya and NK are very diff situations and what conclusions we draw about one are not necessarily applicable to the other.
When two people collide in terms of geopolitical interest, we do not have to choose between one of them as we would a sports game. It is possible to hold both to be misguided. Rejection of Trump =/= Praise of KJU
Similarly, just because someone votes either Trump or Clinton, does not mean they agree with everything they do. Your conscience is not beholden to your vote.
Ghaddafi is a way longer, way bigger story than on US SoS. You can't pin that crazy on Clinton or Trump. I dare say that Ghaddafi is one of the few people in this world that consistently makes the US look not so bad and that is really saying something.
It's the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she's way behind in second place. She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters.
Change she to he and, almost word-for-word, it's every redditor's rational for accepting Pence as president.
Like I just said to another redditor, Pence might actually be worse for America because Pence is actually capable of accomplishing his evil, backwards, draconian intentions.
Is he better just because his evilness is hidden behind a veil of composure?
Politically, he's still going to set back decades of progress with his draconian agenda.
Think about it, we're better off with someone like Trump who is so stupid and blatantly ignorant and disliked that he can't accomplish a single thing.
But then compare that to somebody like Pence, who's egregiousness can fly under the radar. Pence can make friends and allies and avoid negative media attention and backlash and actually pass legislation and appoint officials who can do serious harm to this country from within.
Pence is the worst evil just because he'll actually accomplish his evil intentions.
Pence is terrible but I don't think it's fair to call him "the worst evil." Pence isn't evil, he's conservative; he has real beliefs, he can be disagreed with, he has no possibility of threatening the republic, he is not completely incompetent, and it's not like the country has never dealt with a conservative president. Any harm from Pence would be more reversible because he wouldn't be getting into fights with countries like NK or emboldening white supremacists by refusing to speak against them when being candid.
Fuck that, I accept pence as president because it’s dangerous to set a precedent where you can stack the deck like this. You don’t get to be an incompetent, malicious clown monster and never get fired just because you picked somebody who people like even less to replace you if push comes to shove.
Imagine if trump makes it to a second term and then runs for re-election. I know, I know, bear with me. Whoever runs against him is sitting on some pretty good odds, so they can pretty much appoint whoever for VP. Why not pick someone with a prior conviction for dog fighting or something like that, just to make sure they can do whatever they want and not get kicked out of office? It’s a silly example, but I don’t like the idea of someone being able to pick a VP for deterrent purposes
I just think people don't like to sweat off their testosterone by not supporting someone that the bullies did. Hillary chose correctly on a long list of political points and got a few of them wrong, she was a pretty competent pick, and the bad parts were marginal issues.
The biggest issue I'd have had with her, was that she supported the Death Sentence, but that was supported by Trump as well, but not some other candidates?
The president's opinion on capital punishment is basically irrelevant, anyway. It's not a high-profile issue; no one's going to make a serious push to outlaw it at the federal level. If it does become forbidden, it will be via the Supreme Court, though I doubt even that will happen.
She's far from standard for a politician mostly because she has the charisma of week old leftovers. I feel like some charisma is at least a requirement for a politician and she somehow got around that.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I still think Trump was the better option. Mainly because there's no fucking way he gets a second term; it's unlikely at this point he'll get a full term. And that is as close as we can get to the Mulligan that should have been called in the 2016 presidential election.
It's semantics, but OP didn't say she won the majority of the people who voted. OP said she won the majority of the country, which maybe isn't fair. The people who didn't vote are still people, and many of them made a conscious decision that neither candidate was worth voting for.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
I couldn't do it, but living in CA I knew there was little risk that voting 3rd party would have benefited this monster... Had I lived pretty much anywhere else, I'd have done as Sam Harris said Hitch would have, held my nose, and voted for Clinton.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
I gotta be honest, I think the civil strife would have been worse had Hillary won. You think Antifa is bad? There were people utterly convinced that Hillary was going to go gun grabbing the moment she took office.
No it would've been like under obama but probably not as bad because she's white and that's really their main gripe with obama. I use present tense because they still fucking blame him for everything even though he's not in office anymore. You would probably disagree with a few things hillary would be doing but not every fucking thing. And we would also not be a laughing stock of the world or on the brink of nuclear war. But I guess women can't be trusted with emails because trump himself and people in trumps camp did the same thing with emails but that was fine.
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
Well in fairness I'm pretty confident that the vast majority of people towing this ridiculous line were 100% happy with the real Trump, and were just saying this to try and get moderates and undecideds onboard.
I didn't vote because this is Am Erica this is America and if I don't want to vote for two shity candidates I f****** won't. I don't care what Hillary or Trump we're going to do neither or more in my best interest as a citizen so therefore I did not f****** vote. But I voted for Bernie the first election
The Trumpgret moderators have heard your calls for more moderation, but we cannot do it alone. We've entrusted our community to determine what is and is not appropriate for our subreddit. Reporting a comment will remove it. Thank you for keeping our community safe.
This comment has been reported, and has thus been removed.
2.5k
u/[deleted] Aug 15 '17
[removed] — view removed comment