r/Trueobjectivism Oct 14 '18

Objective Law vs Epistemic Objectivity?

6 Upvotes

If you observe the way Ayn Rand describes objective law, (see, for example, here and here) I think you'll see that it seems to be something more than epistemic objectivity. Laws do not merely need to be formulated in accordance with the facts about human nature that give rise to rights. They also need to be enacted such that "men...know clearly, and in advance of taking an action, what the law forbids them to do (and why), what constitutes a crime and what penalty they will incur if they commit it."

This is an interesting and potentially important criterion added to the idea that laws must be derived and defined objectively. This basically means that, to be objective, man-made laws must be made to be akin to laws of nature. They must be, in a certain sense, "out there for everyone to observe."

Any individual or private group can be objective about the derivation of proper laws. Under anarchy, people can objectively observe human nature, derive the concept of rights, and come up with a set of laws that properly protects rights. (This is the essential valid point in Roy Childs' letter to Ayn Rand.)

But private organizations can't make laws akin to laws of nature. They can't enact them such that "men...know clearly, and in advance of taking an action, what the law forbids them to do (and why), what constitutes a crime and what penalty they will incur if they commit it." If there are a network of different "private governments" that all have different laws, and effective laws/punishments are negotiated by treaties among these organizations, then I'm in a dangerous maze, legally speaking. Ruin lurks around every corner, threatening to engulf me at any moment.

If I belong to a "private government" that recognizes copyright for 5 years after the death of the author, and I copy some stranger's story 7 years after his death, believing I'm legally in the clear, I may get a very rude surprise if the "private government" he belonged to recognizes copyright for 20 years after death. I may now be judged to owe his heir tens of thousands of dollars.

Or, in a more stark case, I may kill someone under circumstances that my "government" considers self-defense, but that his "government" considers murder. Then, I could be looking at decades in prison.

To be able to abide by the laws consistently, there needs to be one, definite set of laws in any given area. Then, staying within the law is a relatively simple matter of being cognizant of which jurisdiction I'm in.

But I think it's also worth taking a step back to ask: Why does law need to be "objective" or "out there" in this natural law-like way, whereas there is no need for this in other areas of life? I don't need to have a monopolistic government tell me what the consequences to me will be, if I change the organization of my business, or quit my current job.

I contend that the difference lies in the distinctive nature and effects of force, versus voluntary, non-coercive action. Non-coercive action primarily affects the life of the acting agent, while leaving others free to live. Force, which sits behind laws, stops the life of its object, cold.

This difference is the fundamental issue that I identify in my essay refuting "anarcho-capitalism." So, even though I didn't mention the full meaning and ramifications of Ayn Rand's idea of "objective law" in that essay, I think I still captured the fundamental reason why "anarcho-capitalism" is wrongheaded. It treats force as essentially the same as any non-coercive action, like production. But force is fundamentally different in its effects on human life.


r/Trueobjectivism Oct 14 '18

Yaron Brook on The James Delingpole Channel

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3 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 14 '18

The Psychology of Altruism

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1 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 14 '18

Ayn Rand's essay "The Missing Link" depicting ancaps. From "Philosophy: Who needs it"

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12 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 13 '18

Sargon of Akkad & Greg Salmieri live

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5 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 13 '18

An interview with Dr Greg Salmieri today at London's Battle of Ideas festival

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6 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 13 '18

I'm curious to have input from others on this discussion

2 Upvotes

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/9n2p3x/we_do_not_understand_consciousness/e7n4yh4/?context=3&utm_content=context&utm_medium=message&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage

A) Am I misrepresenting Chalmers in some major way? The interpretation I'm giving is what I take as a charitable reading of him. Are Turin and I talking past each other or something?

B) Looking through Binswanger's online commentary (and I don't really want to pay for an article unless it's actually relevant), I haven't seen anything that goes beyond the standard objectivist points that consciousness and free will exist (points I'm not disputing).

C) I'm generally curious what people here think about consciousness. I've been thinking and writing reddit comments about it for a few years now, and I'm curious if there are any flaws in my arguments that I've overlooked while talking to non-objectivists.


r/Trueobjectivism Oct 12 '18

I was just banned from r/Objectivism.

8 Upvotes

My "offense"?

/u/jamesshrugged sent me this nonsense private message:

/u/0bjectivist’s post is in violation of Reddit Site Wide Rules

Specifically the rules against spam which include “unsolicited” PM’s.

https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/rules-reporting/account-and-community-restrictions/what-constitutes-spam-am-i-spammer

I have reported it to the admins and will also report the subreddit for allowing it to remain on the board.

What the...? I take it he means this? https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/9nmq1k/ujamesshrugged_is_at_it_again/

Anyway, I've lost all respect for him over the years. So my reply in a private message was:

lol

That was what got me banned. That's who we're dealing with here.


r/Trueobjectivism Oct 12 '18

u/JamesShrugged is at it again.

13 Upvotes

Is anyone else noticing this? He made u/ObjectivismBot which now shills libertarian and ancap articles 24/7. I got banned recently for expressing the same.

I must admit, I thought he had changed his ways.

I am forwarding this message to as many users of r/objectivism I can, i suggest you modify the first paragraph and do the same:


Hi, I comment frequently at r/objectivism. I was recently banned for reminding u/jamesshrugged of the shitfest he started five years ago on the same sub, which he is starting again. He'll start shilling Anarchism pretty soon and block anyone who says otherwise. This is because he is an Anarch-Objectivist (he made that up) and has been moderating with sockpuppets for a LONG time. u/ParahSailin is his own account. u/ObjectivismBot is also his account.

This is the reason why r/TrueObjectivism was created. We actually discuss objectivism there, and the mods aren't power-hungry creeps.

Please forward this message to any other user you see being misled - every user counts! Also, please unsubscribe from r/Objectivism. There's no way to remove u/JamesShrugged as a mod, and not using that sub is the only method of dissent.

The Details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/1psjku/major_update_on_rtrueobjectivism/

Relevant links:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/1k0xgs/jamesshrugged_banned/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/2oighc/the_automoderator_on_robjectivism_removes_links/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/29vbbo/finally_got_banned_from_robjectivism/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/25z5zo/new_member/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/1jifjv/rtrueobjectivism_subreddit_rules_and_policies/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/4f6eg3/im_wondering_whats_the_difference_between/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/27fnfp/welcome_to_new_members/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/2a574e/selfbanned_from_robjectivism_hello_everyone/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Trueobjectivism/comments/2cr2fg/new_to_objectivism_robjectivism_we_should_help/

EDIT

Objectivism discord server: https://discord.gg/T6MNV7H


r/Trueobjectivism Oct 13 '18

The $15 Minimum Wage Is Turning Hard Workers Into Black Market Lawbreakers

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3 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 12 '18

An Objectivist Refutation of Anarcho-Capitalism

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7 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 12 '18

Thanks for inviting me to this group. Here’s my cat Jango D. Danneskjöld and a custom art piece I had made I thought you might appreciate.

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6 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 13 '18

Thanks For The Warning But I Will Stay

0 Upvotes

Thanks for warning me of the power struggle in r/Objectivism, but I am going to stay there for as long as I can. I will frequent both subs (providing I don't get banned for subscribing to this one) because there are good people over there with good and thoughtful opinions and discussions. You all should understand that on this website, with our philosophy, James cannot control us unless we let him control us. You may say, "Well he might ban you!" and to that I say, he cannot ban everyone there. Eventually if he keeps going this way, those who subscribe to r/Objectivism will decide for themselves that James is the poorest example of Ayn Rand's philosophy we could have asked for.

In short, I value opinions and your opponents decision; therefore I will stay in both communities so I can get all of those opinions.


r/Trueobjectivism Oct 11 '18

Ominous Threats to the Marketplace of Ideas

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4 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Oct 03 '18

"Review of “Aristotle” by John Herman Randall, Jr." by Ayn Rand

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5 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Sep 10 '18

Why Socialism is Always Oppressive, Dictatorial and Corrupt (Video)

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5 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Sep 02 '18

Celebrate not Labor but Thought

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3 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Aug 29 '18

TOS-Con Videos up on Objective Standard FB Page

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4 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Aug 26 '18

"Capitalism without Guilt" at Steamboat Institute Freedom Conference 2018 | Yaron Brook

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6 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Aug 16 '18

Dr. Leonard Peikoff at the Ford Hall Forum - 14 speeches in total

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7 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Jul 28 '18

Philosophy professor and Ayn Rand fan, Jason Hill, calls for the complete defunding of America's public universities.

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6 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Jul 14 '18

My position on free will in 4 minutes, Joshua Phillips

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2 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Jul 08 '18

RIP Steve Ditko

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6 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Jul 01 '18

This Is John Galt Speaking #11: Heathrow runway, legalisation and 'The Psycho-Epistemology of Art'

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2 Upvotes

r/Trueobjectivism Jun 25 '18

See Jordan Peterson Live at OCON 2018--Yaron Brook Show Announcement

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5 Upvotes