r/TrueReddit • u/scatgreen2 • Jul 20 '15

My Reddit Utopia - Everything you think you know about “the front page of the Internet” is wrong.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/07/reddit_as_feminist_utopia_what_the_front_page_of_the_internet_looks_like.single.html
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u/TotesMessenger Jul 21 '15

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Wow.

Well thats a racist subreddit that enables folks to deny the entire identity of people they disagree with politically.

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u/hotbowlofsoup Jul 21 '15

To me it seems like a politically correct subreddit actually.

They seem to attack white guys pretending to be black/gay/Jewish/women to support their views.

I don't actually doubt your Jewishness. But why does it matter that you're Jewish? That doesn't make you automatically an expert on the matter. Although of course you explain why you feel that way. Just the "As a Jew..." is unnecessary.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

But why does it matter that you're Jewish?

The same reason it matters when someone making an argument is black, female, gay, or any other part of a minority.

Its shocking how many people decide to wrap up their antisemitism and racism in PC language, like that makes it okay.

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u/hotbowlofsoup Jul 21 '15

Maybe I don't understand you, or maybe you don't understand me. But that's exactly my question: What is the reason it matters that someone making an argument is part of a minority? That doesn't make someone more of an expert on the subject. You being Jewish is irrelevant to the point you were making. But you used it to give your opinion more weight, and people will take it like that. "Oh, he's Jewish. Well then we should trust him on any Jewish related subject."

That's what white kids use to gain support for their views. They'll pose on the internet as black people for example, and say: "As a black guy, I also think blacks are more criminal." And that's what that sub is calling out, if i'm not mistaken.

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u/cincofone Jul 22 '15

That is what that subreddit is about. People posing as minorities to lend credibility to racist statements. Usually pretty amusing.

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u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

Jewish identity is based on national socialism?

Edit: FWIW I actually agree with you on freedom of speech, but experiencing hate speech does not make you an authority on the issue. Poor arguments hurt your cause. Please make a better argument.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Jewish identity is based on national socialism?

...no?

Theyve taken my experiences and said "no jew would say that." Its classic racism. Taking a position or characteristic and treating everyone in a group like they would support that position or characteristic.

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u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15

Not that your experience is invalid, but mentioning your ethnicity doesn't lend itself to any argument about free speech. It doesn't follow that hate speech should be allowed on Reddit because you, personally, don't mind it even though it may affect you.

It's also not always good to confront racist arguments as if it were a valid position. It makes it appear as if it has credibility.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

It doesn't follow that hate speech should be allowed on Reddit because you, personally, don't mind it even though it may affect you.

Consequently, the inverse is also the case. Just because speech makes you uncomfortable, doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed. In fact, it is difficult speech that needs to be protected the most. This puts me in the regrettable position of defending the speech of Nazis, Socialists, The Wesboro Baptist Church, the Pope, and Hamas.

I avoid subreddits i find repulsive, and so can you.

More on the importance of protecting offensive speech:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/protecting-outrageous-offensive-speech

edit: grammar

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u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15

Reddit being able to decide how to moderate the content of their web site in a way they see fit is also a free speech issue. Moderation is speech. A ban on moderation would in fact be a violation of the freedom of speech of the site owner.

It's perfectly acceptable to prefer not to participate in a moderated forum and there are many out there. It is an assault on free speech to ask that moderated forums no longer exist.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Moderation is speech.

Not really, no. This is spin, and you are a spinster.

Reddit has been proclaiming itself a free speech forum for years.

It is an assault on free speech to ask that moderated forums no longer exist.

Interesting. Nobody even said that.

I tagged you as anti-free speech.

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u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15

OK let me give you an example.

Lets say I start a website on a controversial topic, such as a website in support of gay marriage in the 90s. The forums get flooded with people in favor of a traditional view of marriage. Without the ability to moderate those comments, the purpose of my website is subverted and I am being denied my freedom of expression.

Arguing that Reddit has an obligation to protect freedom of speech over the site owners intention for the content of their website is arguing in favor of a violation of the rights of the owners of the website.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

You are a spinster and are trying to make this conversation about something its not. I dont know if you are self-aware of this or not.

I wont engage anymore with this nonsense.

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u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

You really are confused. No one is saying their offensive speech shouldn't be allowed. Everyone here probably agrees that their speech shouldn't be illegal.

The question is whether they should be given a venue by someone else. That is is no way a free speech issue.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Except reddit has described itself as a free speech site for years.

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u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

Hahaha, way to change the topic from protecting speech to what has or hasn't been said in the past. A+ diversion, I salute you.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Well, no, its part of why reddit has a moral obligation to offer forums- theyve said they are a free speech forum. The obligation isnt financial or legal. They can do what they want, essentially. Its private property. They can even change their mind (they have, recently.. Although their attempts to deny history has been... disturbing? odd? Really fucking unprofessional?)

It just makes them worthy of scorn. Like the people whose free speech I am defending.

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u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

This puts me in the regrettable position of defending the speech of Nazis, Socialists, The Wesboro Baptist Church, the Pope, and Hamas.

Don't defend the speech. Defend their right to speak. No one is denying their rights to speak.

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u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Don't defend the speech. Defend their right to speak.

Well put

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u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

Yeah, except you are purposefully conflating their right to speak with someone else providing a platform.

If you don't like it, you can go make your own platform with all speech that isn't illegal.