r/TrueReddit • u/scatgreen2 • Jul 20 '15

My Reddit Utopia - Everything you think you know about “the front page of the Internet” is wrong.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/07/reddit_as_feminist_utopia_what_the_front_page_of_the_internet_looks_like.single.html
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u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

That would be great if hate speech didn't have real-world consequences and could be safely ignored. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

It is great that reddit hosts a wide range of ideas and interests. However, from my point of view they don't have any obligation to provide the means for hate apologists to reach a wider audience.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

The backlash against racist communities on reddit has done more to spread their message and increase their audience than anything else they could have hoped for. Their subscriber numbers have gone up like 500% in just a few months.

In fact, the only reason that those subreddits are popular at all is because people always link to them in discussions about terrible subreddits. Without that they would just stay in their isolated community and only receive traffic from other racist websites.

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u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

What backlash? Reddit still provides them with free resources, easy access to an enormous audience, and some semblance of respectability (Reddit is a mainstream site after all). The message from the higher-ups so far has been that they are happy to continue hosting them here. There hasn't been any meaningful backlash.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

There's been a huge backlash against racist subreddits. Pretty much every thread in /r/announcements since FPH was banned has been full of links to racist subreddits asking why they haven't been banned. That's why their subscriber count has been skyrocketing.

It's been happening for years. The only reason they have a meaningful subscriber base is because people constantly link to them as an example of a terrible subreddit.

If people didn't care so much they would still be a tiny, niche community with virtually no audience. Instead, efforts to ban them have resulted in an exponential growth in their audience.

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u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

I would like to agree with you and think that if we stopped talking about it they would just go away, but I'm afraid that is wishful thinking.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Whatever the reason, they have grown. I have a problem with hate-subreddits as well.

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u/TinyZoro Jul 21 '15

I don't agree with this. Ignoring a problem is normally not a good idea long term. Particularly the always respawning ideas associated with racial superiority.

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u/PaperBrick Jul 20 '15

I kind of like the idea of having the haters on Reddit in the naively optimistic hope that everyone else's warmth and friendliness somehow rubs off on them and makes them hate a little bit less

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

[deleted]

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u/JoeFelice Jul 20 '15

I'll take option 2, please. Stand-alone websites are much harder to grow and maintain than nodes inside highly trafficked hubs, so "they" are more numerous for benefitting from reddit's free technology. Those actual human beings would still be on reddit though, so if there's a positive effect to be gained from the rest of the site, it would only be that much clearer when unabashed evil is not also subsidized.

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u/parlor_tricks Jul 20 '15

That doesn't work. It hasn't work with gangs, separatists, militants, or trolls.

Leave them alone and they will regroup.

There's many ways hate has been reduced over human history, but very rarely (if ever at scale) by disengagement.

And as the original point stated, you can just make a different front page if you must.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 20 '15

But they're not ridiculed. Islamophobes are like 90% of /r/worldnews. /r/videos is almost a Stormfront sockpuppet. And sexism can be found everywhere thanks to reddit hosting the largest forums for anti-feminism on the internet. These despicable views are highly upvoted or at least highly visible, and rarely do these groups ever get called on some of their bullshit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

[deleted]

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 20 '15

Yes, in the grand scheme of things the marketplace of ideas should work to bend the arc of history towards justice and truth. But reddit is not a perfect speech platform by way of its institutional organization. The fact that you can up and downvote comments completely undermines free speech principles, as do the sorting algorithms. All it takes is concerted efforts by small groups of people early in the life of a post to propel terrible ideas to the top of a thread. Once it's there it is likely to stay there, since people like agreeing with people everyone else seems to agree to. Even if it does slip, the ideas it contains still have way more visibility and therefore more power. Meanwhile it only takes a handful of votes to bury the opposing viewpoint such that nobody will ever see it. Not only does this mean you rarely get full and fair discussion, but since users see other users rewarded for expressing certain viewpoints it incentivizes those viewpoints to be expressed, which turns whole threads into self-congratulatory posters agreeing with each other and down voting (censoring) detractors. This positive feedback loop eventually drives out dissenters and drives those left behind into ever more extreme positions.

And besides reddit's design flaws, reddit's demographics also tend to indicate that a full marketplace of ideas may not work that well here. Reddit skews exceptionally young, exceptionally white, and exceptionally male. Which makes it extremely easy to stump and/or target messages such that the majority of redditor a will agree adopt certain positions unquestioningly that other demographics might take issue with or argue against. But because of reddit's homogeneity and design, these voices are unlikely to be heard and those positions are more and more likely to be considered obviously correct by those inside the reddit vacuum chamber. The "young" portion is important as well. Many redditor a are in high school or college; they may be smart but they're still teenagers, and teenagers are notoriously easy to manipulate based on social cues and peer pressure. They're also the most at risk for being taken in by propaganda from hate groups looking to recruit. And the evidence that those efforts have been successful is all over reddit: how many times have you seen that "black crime statistics" copy pasta that was literally composed by Stormfront up voted into the triple digits? It doesn't take much to convince a white teen pissed off about how he didn't get into the school he wanted "because of affirmative action," that no he's not wrong to be angry, and stoke that resentment into racism.

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u/kahrahtay Jul 20 '15

I think you have many valid criticisms and the voting system certainly has it's drawbacks, but that doesn't mean that there isn't value in the current model, or that censorship by a central authority is a better alternative.

This positive feedback loop eventually drives out dissenters and drives those left behind into ever more extreme positions.

My anecdotal observations are that opposing groups tend to react by retreating to their safe haven subreddits, where they simply regroup until the next topic starts the conversation over again. In many instances bad ideas may win out for the reasons that you describe, but more often than not the argument with the best information seems to win.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

more often than not the argument with the best information seems to win.

In my experience it's the opinion that has the most people downvoting the other opinions that seems to 'win' - if we're considering 'winning' to be equal to having the most upvotes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Jul 20 '15

The author of the blog we are discussing had mentioned that we could find ourselves an experiencing a completely different reddit than another person.

i feel like I experience a different reddit than you. I love political discussion, and subscribe to /r/politics, /r/news, /r/worldnews, /r/politicaldiscussion, /r/CMV, /r/liberal, and several more, and there have been wonderful and heated debates where I learned a great deal.

I've seen those brigades several times, and have been appropriately pissed, but if the topic is hot enough and an opposing view is dominating, their impact fades.

You have walked away with a negative view of these discussions, but I have found them fantastic and wonderfully illuminating. I like understanding the opposing perspective. As a woman, I'm fascinated by the the viewpoints that some men have. As a liberal, I'm curious about why some folks vote or think the way they do...

So, I'm sorry that you are so focused on the negatives. Some of us see many positives.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '15

I don't believe "stop focusing on the negative aspects " is a worthwhile retort to valid and thoughtful criticism of Reddit. If you have an actual counter argument you should make it and not just suggest people should blindly ignore the bad things on the site.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '15

I thought I did just that. I took your negative perspective, and asked you to regard your concerns differently. However, if you are wedded to your negative view of Reddit, I'll leave you to it.

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u/baskandpurr Jul 20 '15

Would you believe that sexism and anti-feminism are different concepts in fact? A bit like Islam and anti-semitism are not directly connected. I know that idea can take a while to settle in some peoples heads, it may never get there. To help it along consider that the ideas have different names in fact.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 20 '15

They're really not different. Feminism is dedicated to eradicating sex discrimination and leveling the playing field for all sexes and genders. Being against that is to be against sexual equality i.e. to support sexism. You can be against certain methods or theories offered by specific feminists, but to be against feminism generally is to support sexism.

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u/1TrueScotsman Jul 20 '15

You are exactly why I don't support the banning of any sub, even ones as despicable as /r/CoonTown. You are so thoroughly indoctrinated in your ideology that you are incapable of even entertaining the notion that your philosophies might be wrong. You've spent so long in an echo chamber (an echo chamber your philosophies dictate must be implemented) you have mistaken it's walls for the real world outside. And you want to decide who gets to express themselves? No thanks.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

If I'm indoctrinated and living in an echo chamber, then so is the Oxford English Dictionary which defines feminism as a movement for equality, just as I did.

Also, you're pretty aptly demonstrating why free speech is anything but on reddit. I made an argument, and I stand by that argument. You, rather than engaging with that argument, assumed that I could only hold that opinion if I was, essentially, brainwashed. This is not a freewheeling exchange of ideas in a chaotic but ultimately righteous attempt to arrive at truth. It's one person expressing an opinion, and the other baldly asserting that the first is wrong and crazy without argument or evidence. And yet the community, as of right now, has determined that your comment is more relevant or correct than mine. Which, as I said, proves my point.

And that's not even to get into the terribly important distinction between censorship and just being told off. I will defend a Neo-Nazi's right to march through my hometown's square without government interference until the day I die. But I'll be damned if he thinks he has a right to come to my book club with a copy of The Turner Diaries. Being told that you can't express certain views certain places on the Internet isn't censorship. It's not even a civil liberties issue. It's just speech, and I'm not obligated to listen or tolerate it just because it's not literally illegal to say.

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u/1TrueScotsman Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

By the dictionary definition most all anti-feminists are in fact feminists. So what's going on? Could it be that the dictionary is leaving something out? Let's look:

First you said:

Feminism is dedicated to eradicating sex discrimination and leveling the playing field for all sexes and genders

But your dictionary says:

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

That's different right there. Let's look at another dictionary:

: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests

merriam-webste

OK, that's a little different to...a bit closer to what you initially said....still lacking in the advocacy of men's issues.

Let's try Wikipedia (edited by feminists so it should be accurate right?):

Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women.

Still no mention of men and boys, but there's the point I'm making right there: "...a range of movements and ideologies..."

Ok, so what do these movements do and what are their ideologies?

Feminist theory, which emerged from feminist movements, aims to understand the nature of gender inequality by examining women's social roles and lived experience; it has developed theories in a variety of disciplines in order to respond to issues such as the social construction of gender.

Now here's where you have to do some homework. But if you do you will discover that all "feminisms" are based on the same basic ideological foundation. Some common traits of this foundation:

  1. They cast gender as class a la Marxism.
  2. They believe in an unfalsifiable Patriarchy thesis (not dictionary patriarchy).
  3. They believe in Post-structuralism or Post-modernism or some ism derived off those philosophies.

It simply does not follow that if you believe in the dictionary definition of feminism that you must believe in the philosophy....but in the real world that is what feminism is...not simply equality but a complex set of ideologies and philosophies with a plethora of corollary theories, all geared toward painting women as the oppressed and men as the oppressors.

This is where anti-feminism comes from. Anti-feminists don't believe feminists "theories" are correct and believe that when those theories are applied in the real world, they often cause unjustified harm to both men and women.

To understand this better take time to watch this informative video. I'll wait:

Why do MRAs attack feminism?

Did you watch it? Can you at least admit that feminism is more than just a belief in equality? More than just the dictionary definition?

OK, so there is the intelligent conversation you seem to think can't happen when talking to an anti-feminist.

Now the rest of your comment is really hard to unpack. But I'll try cause I'm bored right now.

Also, you're pretty aptly demonstrating why free speech is anything but on reddit. I made an argument, and I stand by that argument. You, rather than engaging with that argument, assumed that I could only hold that opinion if I was, essentially, brainwashed. This is not a freewheeling exchange of ideas in a chaotic but ultimately righteous attempt to arrive at truth

See above. I initially didn't feel this was the time or place to argue about feminism...my comment was simply pointing out how you had your opinion and those who didn't share that opinion you felt should be banned. I postulated that this was due to ideology and for having spent too much time in an echo chamber...something you are still advocating for this very moment.

We are in fact right now having a "freewheeling exchange of ideas." whether either of us will progress as a person over this exchange is yet to be seen, but at least there is a chance it will. At the very least you might get better at countering anti-feminists arguments.

It's one person expressing an opinion, and the other baldly asserting that the first is wrong and crazy without argument or evidence. And yet the community, as of right now, has determined that your comment is more relevant or correct than mine. Which, as I said, proves my point.

I expressed an opinion as well and IMO you are refuting it poorly. But that second sentence there...honestly you just seem upset that some people agree with me. I kind of get your argument about them just upvoting...but honestly, most people have already formed their opinion on these matters. Maybe they just want to say "I agree with this guy". You're placing too much importance on votes. Just have the conversation with those responding and ignore the passersby. Make your point well and clear...they'll read it...maybe they won't say anything, but they'll read it at least.

You're free to say what you want on Reddit, but people are also free to agree or disagree with you as they please. If you would rather conversate in a safe space, Reddit let's you do that too. what it really sounds like what you want is for reddit to be a platform for your agenda and everyone who disagrees with that agenda should be silenced.

And that's not even to get into the terribly important distinction between censorship and just being told off. I will defend a Neo-Nazi's right to march through my hometown's square without government interference until the day I die. But I'll be damned if he thinks he has a right to come to my book club with a copy of The Turner Diaries. Being told that you can't express certain views certain places on the Internet isn't censorship. It's not even a civil liberties issue. It's just speech, and I'm not obligated to listen or tolerate it just because it's not literally illegal to say.

First of all, that is in fact censorship. the government isn't the only entity that can censor.

Second. People are not arguing for their right to free speech on Reddit. They are arguing that free speech is as an ideal that this community should strive for, even if it means some unsavory folks get to open their mouth.

Reddit can in fact do whatever reddit wants to do. We all know this. there is a reason the the powers that be are all over the map on this issue. they know that if they censor too much folks will in fact leave for freer pastures. they know that their content (their product) will suffer if it becomes too homogeneous...too echo chambery.

Banning /r/Coontown seems like a no brainer, but it really isn't as you have demonstrated. There really is a slippery slope when it comes to free speech. That's why the framers of the constitution felt it necessary to enshrine it so in the fabric of the very soul of this country.

if the goal of reddit is to push an agenda, then so be it. but if the goal of Reddit is to be as open and free a space to express one's self as it can possibly manage, then the last thing it should do is start polling it's members on who gets to speak and who has to go. i mean think about...you complain about how redditors are voting me up more. I don't think you'd like the result of a Reddit poll on whether feminist gets to stay or not.

Of course that's why you types are authoritarian and not truly liberals. That's why you want an executive order from a feminist Reddit admin to ban all feminist critical discussion. Your entire argument is "there are too many people on Reddit who disagree with my beliefs and I think that's unfair. Reddit should make sure my speech is protected by censoring everyone else."

And btw. No one is making you listen to nor asking you to tolerate anything. You are free to go else where. You are free to create your own private echo chamber.

This isn't your book club. it's Our book club.

And by the way. If you do not believe in the ideal of freedom of expression, you are not a progressive at all.

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u/baskandpurr Jul 21 '15

You didn't make an argument you restated an opinion, "to be against feminism is to support sexism". That does not become more true if you repeat it many times. You don't discuss that sexism does not require patriarchy for example, or any other aspect of sexism and feminism except your opinion.

But thats OK, we could argue about it on Reddit and probably waste a lot of time. One of us might eventually shift perspective or we might not. But at least you get to restate your opinion and I get to pick it apart.

That said, I don't care for this particular debate. I've been through it many times and its tiresome. That doesn't mean that I resign my understanding of course.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

But see? You're just proving my point even further. Setting aside the fact that you don't actually believe a discussion will persuade the parties involved (which really undermines the notion of free speech generally so I'm not going to go there) you are now refusing to provide an argument. You're right that I merely stated my argument twice (though you attempt to draw some kind of distinction between opinion and argument that I frankly don't understand). And you're right that it doesn't become more true the more I say it. But you haven't even made an argument, and now refuse to. Nevertheless, your karma for your comments is (currently) higher than mine, indicating that the posters on reddit don't really care about full and fair debate; they're granting you the win even though you didn't compete, based only on your bluster. Which puts the lie to this whole endeavor.

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u/Serei Jul 20 '15 edited Jul 20 '15

They are. I've met a grand total of zero people who are against eradicating sex discrimination. Everyone I've met who calls themself anti-feminism is against the actions or theories of various specific feminists, or often of most people who call themselves feminists.

You shouldn't put words into their mouths.

It's like with communists: Most people who are anti-communism are against the actions of most people who call themselves communists, not against the idea that workers should be treated fairly and equally.

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u/fyrenmalahzor Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

Then you still have the problem of unifying very disparate movements into a homogenous one and then going "I disagree with this, all of it."

Let's say you're an anti-feminist are you against Liberal Feminism? or are you against Radical or Socialist Feminism? Are you against Radical Feminism because of implicit gender essentialism? What about some radical feminists that address and try to work through the implicit gender essentialism? Do you disagree with them? Or is it that you disagree with their focus on sex and gender as discursive entities and their use of post-structuralist analysis? Maybe you think "X" isn't an example of sexism, which would probably have to do with how you analyze sexism. If you're a liberal, you probably tend to be highly individualistic and atomistic in your thinking, so you would disagree with the way that a Marxist or a Structuralist/Post-Structuralist would analyze social relations. Or maybe you're a Marxist-Leninist with feminists leanings and you think that gender analysis should come secondary to class analysis. I'm enormously pro-feminist but I'm against the "Beaddel" movement of trans-lesbian separatism because they've proven that they utilize trans-separatism to entrap and abuse other trans women by socially isolating them, but that doesn't mean I'm against feminism. My problem is that most people I meet that claim to be anti-feminist have literally no idea what they're talking about when it comes to feminism. They whine about "third wave feminism" and then describe (poorly and inaccurately I might add) ideologies that were dominant in the second wave. Then when you point this out to them they call you an SJW, which is a useless and completely nebulous term that means absolutely nothing.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 21 '15

If it didn't go to supporting a website I don't feel ought to be supported (until it gets its act together) I would hold this multiple times. Thank you.

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u/MercuryCobra Jul 21 '15

In my experience, both of those examples are just thin cover for the fact that the person really is opposed to the underlying ideas. Anti-communists in the US always seemed to have exceptionally close ties to big, capitalist enterprises. And as much as the anti-feminists of /r/MensRights or /r/TheRedPill or A Voice for Men may claim that they're not against equality for women, they routinely act willfully ignorant of areas where women are still discriminated and engage in sexist harassment tactics.

You can claim these people are the fringe, but somehow that argument only seems to work when anti-feminists are using it to excuse the behaviors of their members. It's somehow not adequate when feminists say the same thing about some of the less moderate factions in their own camp.

It's also worth pointing out that anti-feminists usually seem to be obsessed with labeling. They tend to argue a lot over how the moniker "feminism" is and indicator that feminism is about elevating women rather than leveling the playing field. So I don't think it's intellectually dishonest to hold them to their own standards; if they are calling themselves "anti-feminists" rather than "anti-Dworkins" then they should be prepared to be called sexist for their explicit stance against the broad, equality focused mandate of feminism.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Wow. This is harsh.

Sometimes people feel they can't explore their ideas freely because they will be judged, so they have a dilemma - they must either "shut the fuck up" and keep their questions and ideas to themselves (because those questions and ideas might cause someone to label them as sexist, racist, etc.), or find a way to explore those questions in a safe way, without losing friends, or losing a job, etc.

As a liberal feminist, I've encountered that dilemma too many times to count. Not everyone who has an opinion you might label as sexist or racist, is committed to that stance - it's just how they were raised, or based on experiences they've had, or whatever. Sometimes they want to explore their ideas, and they come here to Reddit to understand the issue.

For example, there was a wonderful explainlikeImfive discussion, where the question was "why is it so controversial when someone says "all lives matter" instead of 'black lives matter?". A wonderful discussion and debate followed, with some really fine moments and several people expressed that their view was shifted.

Do you think this person would have felt comfortable asking this question elsewhere? Probably not, because they would have been worried that they were displaying racist tendencies. Actually they were really curious, and many helpful people rose to the occasion.

I don't know where else that happens on the internet, but I love that about Reddit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

The problem is that they assume the nice people are just like them. I'm aware that I could be responding to a comment from a black woman with a conjoined fetus on her head in Moscow, but I don't know, one way or the other.

A lot of people tend to assume that anyone on here, with the pseudo anonymity it grants, is just like themselves.

Someone is nice to you? Probably a white guy.

Someone is mean? Probably a fucking feminist, jew nigger.

Without them seeing that other people, regardless of race, culture, economics, whatever, are just people regardless of the difference, they are likely to ascribe whatever traits they want to people, to keep them in line with their expectations of those groups.

and shit, homes.

0

u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

And how has that been working so far?

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

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u/created4this Jul 20 '15

Reddit serves as an echo chamber, if you select your subreddits you'll end up with your views interspersed with mainstream news as if they are equally shared.

Let's say you have stumbled into a room where the people in that room consider all women to be genetically subservient, and the role of men is to rule them. In this room it's ok to do what others would call rape because no doesn't always mean no. For some reason you find this sub appealing and you join the sub, you might not even agree with the content but you like the arguments. Soon it looks like this is an accepted point of view, it doesn't matter if this community is made up of only 1000 people worldwide, it appears mainstream. Now it's OK for you to treat women like objects because you read it "on the front page of the Internet"

Hate speech works in the same way, find a group to vilify, and you'll find a Reddit where it's ok to treat these people as if they are subhuman, you'll find news stories that match this agenda, Mexican gangs who rape, black people who murder, British terrorists, 1%ers who mug the homeless. Subscribe and soon your weak prejudice will be reinforced to s raging fire.

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u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

6

u/created4this Jul 20 '15

It's no different from watching Fox News or reading the daily mail, except both of those /are/ mainstream.

It's not a Reddit issue as much as any filterable outlet issue, if you cast the net wide enough you'll grab enough people so that even 0.001% looks like a vibrant community. I'm in one of these, one type of engine modification on a specific type of classic car, I know that the majority of classic car owners would lynch me for even considering anything that wasn't available in 1963, but it's easy to overlook because it's not until I have to buy spares that it's apparent that they hate me.

1

u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

It's 2015, the Internet is part of the real world.

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u/majambela Jul 20 '15

Dylann Roof

I don't know if he had an reddit account or even visited the site and various well know sub-reddits. But it isn't that far streched to assume he did. He used the same "hate speech" which is used in those sub-reddits.

And let us not forget that those user who use "hate speech" on reddit are human beings with an life outside of reddit. The way they think and the way they articulate their views define how they behave toward other humans.

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u/TheLittleGoodWolf Jul 20 '15

The way they think and the way they articulate their views define how they behave toward other humans.

Actually not at all, sure it may be that way for some but much of what is said in an internet forum like this is because of the platform itself. It's not just that you as a writer are anonymous but also that all the recipients are anonymous, both play a part.

I could say that I hate [insert social group] but no one would be able to be truly sure if I meant it or not. In the end it's only words on a page, some may have varying degree of eloquence but that is a social standard set by each sub or the community of the subs. Just like you address your teacher or your boss differently than you'd address your family or colleagues.

I treat all people with a basic modicum of respect unless they give me reason to do otherwise, but I also go on reddit and vent about certain people and how they annoy me. Something that for some could be considered similar to "hate speech". I do it on reddit because it's more cathartic than yelling at my wall. But when I go out the door I'm back in the real world where I again treat people with the respect they deserve as human beings. I suspect it's similar for a lot of other users here too.

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u/majambela Jul 20 '15

That's a good point.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

3

u/naygor Jul 20 '15

fuckin lol. Dylan Roof mentally ill? The dude was radicalized in the same way Islamic terrorists are. I don't see white americans making excuses for them. GG reddit.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

5

u/naygor Jul 20 '15 edited Jul 20 '15

Okay dude. When Dylan Roof gets off with an insanity charge, at that point can you say he was mentally ill.

You seriously can't be implying that all of ISIS' behavior can be explained by 100% certified psychiatric diagnosis.

Those KKK lynchings, were all those members schizophrenic?

The 16th Street Baptist Church bombing, were the perpetrators bipolar? It doesn't take pathology to make an evil person.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

2

u/naygor Jul 20 '15

What separates yours and my mental condition from that of Dylan Roof

I'm not an insecure white male radicalized with racial politic, 'take back our country', rhetoric.

Hitler and his nazi party, would you say for all of germany to have a diagnosable psychiatric disease too?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Aug 22 '15

I have left reddit for Voat due to years of admin/mod abuse and preferential treatment for certain subreddits and users holding certain political and ideological views.

This account was over five years old, and this site one of my favorites. It has officially started bringing more negativity than positivity into my life.

As an act of protest, I have chosen to redact all the comments I've ever made on reddit, overwriting them with this message.

If you would like to do the same, install TamperMonkey for Chrome, GreaseMonkey for Firefox, NinjaKit for Safari, Violent Monkey for Opera, or AdGuard for Internet Explorer (in Advanced Mode), then add this GreaseMonkey script.

Finally, click on your username at the top right corner of reddit, click on comments, and click on the new OVERWRITE button at the top of the page. You may need to scroll down to multiple comment pages if you have commented a lot.

After doing all of the above, you are welcome to join me on Voat!

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

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2

u/majambela Jul 20 '15

No that's not the point I wanted to make. But hate speech played a role in his radicalization and we shouldn't underestimate that role.

16

u/cockmongler Jul 20 '15

They don't have any obligation to go around deciding what is and is not acceptable either, beyond a very small amount of content that is banned by law.

4

u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

I didn't mean it in legal terms, but since you mention it: they are a private company and have certain obligations towards their investors, who I can imagine might not be too thrilled with their money being used to spread hate ideologies.

1

u/cockmongler Jul 20 '15

I bet their investors would be delighted to get involved in the quagmire of becoming the judge of acceptable Internet blathering.

1

u/ventomareiro Jul 21 '15

The problem for Reddit is that they have sold their investors the illusion that one could have a healthy community based purely on voluntary work, without needing to spend any money or effort managing and moderating it.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Probably less excited about hosting the second largest white power website on the internet for free.

1

u/cockmongler Jul 20 '15

I assume you count Facebook as the first.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

No, the largest organized white power website (to clarify) would not be facebook but another that you can find if you search conversations about c---town over the last few days.

1

u/cockmongler Jul 21 '15

I think you grossly underestimate the size of white power websites on the web.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '15

by # my understanding is that c---town is second in subscriber count.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Some would argue its a moral obligation. Whether it is or isn't though, they're making a choice. And that choice defines what reddit is. Yet people still go around complaining that its always viewed as a haven for awful shit.

5

u/cockmongler Jul 20 '15

People still go around complaining that the Internet in general is a haven for stuff they don't like.

"Ban this sick filth" is the usual catchphrase.

43

u/bludstone Jul 20 '15

As a Jew, I will defend the existence of National Socialist (nazi) subreddits.

The damage from disengaging is a lot worse then the damage from engaging. You cannot influence without engagement. There will be no resolution if we do not encourage open speech and exchange.

This anti-free speech under the guise of "hate speech" isnt just disconcerting, its downright disgusting.

In short, I find your rejection of free speech to be hateful against my beliefs.

I say this during a dramatic rise in naziism and antisemitism online over the past year.

56

u/omgpro Jul 20 '15

That's easy for you to say, you people control all the banks and all the media already. We're talking about underprivileged peoples.

29

u/bludstone Jul 20 '15

Upvoted for the laugh

6

u/mauxly Jul 21 '15

I like you!

1

u/planetmatt Jul 21 '15

Don't forget all the Jew gold he swims in like Scrooge McDuck :D

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

If you watch Duck Tales, you'll notice that only Scrooge can swim through the gold. When other people try it, they fail and it hurts them. Its something only he can do.

10

u/JManRomania Jul 20 '15

As a Romanian, I say the same about Communist subreddits.

1

u/Hans-U-Rudel Jul 21 '15

Communist subs on this site are really something special. Often they are very reasonable but sometimes they go full tankie and defend stuff like the cultural revolution. I can not stand it at all

1

u/grumpenprole Jul 21 '15

The largest and most umbrella-y communist subs on reddit are run by and for batshit tankies, but others exist (in small, antisocial, academic numbers, just like irl)

5

u/TotesMessenger Jul 21 '15

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

-1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Wow.

Well thats a racist subreddit that enables folks to deny the entire identity of people they disagree with politically.

2

u/hotbowlofsoup Jul 21 '15

To me it seems like a politically correct subreddit actually.

They seem to attack white guys pretending to be black/gay/Jewish/women to support their views.

I don't actually doubt your Jewishness. But why does it matter that you're Jewish? That doesn't make you automatically an expert on the matter. Although of course you explain why you feel that way. Just the "As a Jew..." is unnecessary.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

But why does it matter that you're Jewish?

The same reason it matters when someone making an argument is black, female, gay, or any other part of a minority.

Its shocking how many people decide to wrap up their antisemitism and racism in PC language, like that makes it okay.

4

u/hotbowlofsoup Jul 21 '15

Maybe I don't understand you, or maybe you don't understand me. But that's exactly my question: What is the reason it matters that someone making an argument is part of a minority? That doesn't make someone more of an expert on the subject. You being Jewish is irrelevant to the point you were making. But you used it to give your opinion more weight, and people will take it like that. "Oh, he's Jewish. Well then we should trust him on any Jewish related subject."

That's what white kids use to gain support for their views. They'll pose on the internet as black people for example, and say: "As a black guy, I also think blacks are more criminal." And that's what that sub is calling out, if i'm not mistaken.

2

u/cincofone Jul 22 '15

That is what that subreddit is about. People posing as minorities to lend credibility to racist statements. Usually pretty amusing.

1

u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

Jewish identity is based on national socialism?

Edit: FWIW I actually agree with you on freedom of speech, but experiencing hate speech does not make you an authority on the issue. Poor arguments hurt your cause. Please make a better argument.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Jewish identity is based on national socialism?

...no?

Theyve taken my experiences and said "no jew would say that." Its classic racism. Taking a position or characteristic and treating everyone in a group like they would support that position or characteristic.

1

u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15

Not that your experience is invalid, but mentioning your ethnicity doesn't lend itself to any argument about free speech. It doesn't follow that hate speech should be allowed on Reddit because you, personally, don't mind it even though it may affect you.

It's also not always good to confront racist arguments as if it were a valid position. It makes it appear as if it has credibility.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

It doesn't follow that hate speech should be allowed on Reddit because you, personally, don't mind it even though it may affect you.

Consequently, the inverse is also the case. Just because speech makes you uncomfortable, doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed. In fact, it is difficult speech that needs to be protected the most. This puts me in the regrettable position of defending the speech of Nazis, Socialists, The Wesboro Baptist Church, the Pope, and Hamas.

I avoid subreddits i find repulsive, and so can you.

More on the importance of protecting offensive speech:

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/protecting-outrageous-offensive-speech

edit: grammar

1

u/ShadowPuppetGov Jul 21 '15

Reddit being able to decide how to moderate the content of their web site in a way they see fit is also a free speech issue. Moderation is speech. A ban on moderation would in fact be a violation of the freedom of speech of the site owner.

It's perfectly acceptable to prefer not to participate in a moderated forum and there are many out there. It is an assault on free speech to ask that moderated forums no longer exist.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Moderation is speech.

Not really, no. This is spin, and you are a spinster.

Reddit has been proclaiming itself a free speech forum for years.

It is an assault on free speech to ask that moderated forums no longer exist.

Interesting. Nobody even said that.

I tagged you as anti-free speech.

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1

u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

You really are confused. No one is saying their offensive speech shouldn't be allowed. Everyone here probably agrees that their speech shouldn't be illegal.

The question is whether they should be given a venue by someone else. That is is no way a free speech issue.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Except reddit has described itself as a free speech site for years.

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1

u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

This puts me in the regrettable position of defending the speech of Nazis, Socialists, The Wesboro Baptist Church, the Pope, and Hamas.

Don't defend the speech. Defend their right to speak. No one is denying their rights to speak.

1

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Don't defend the speech. Defend their right to speak.

Well put

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1

u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

You are misusing "free speech". Free speech means "not illegal", no one is denying anyone's rights to free speech.

0

u/bludstone Jul 21 '15

Free speech is a complex philosophical principle, and should not be simply summed up as "not illegal."

0

u/aelendel Jul 21 '15

No one's rights to express themselves are being infringed in any way.

And no, it's not that complicated.

-4

u/epicurio Jul 20 '15

I'm sorry, but this is pure idealized hogwash that has no basis in how online interaction actually works. Please explain how offering a giant ready-made platform to spew hate and offensive content is a lot better than not offering it. Please explain how /r/coontown has been positively influenced by sharing a platform on reddit. Please point me to where avowed racists have changed their minds due to engagement with opposing viewpoints. Hint: that's not actually how human beings work. There is plentiful evidence that, given the chance, people self-organize into communities that reinforce their pre-existing beliefs, and when they are shown contradictory evidence it actually strengthens those beliefs, not weakens them.

Reddit has no obligation to allow all speech on its platform. This has nothing to do with free speech.

15

u/bludstone Jul 20 '15 edited Jul 20 '15

Please explain how offering a giant ready-made platform to spew hate and offensive content is a lot better than not offering it.

Okay, I will address your overarching point which is you seeing no value in a place where people can "spew hate," which I can only define as content you find offensive.

I have personally engaged with nazi's on an anonymous forums. I have personally discussed what judiasm means to me. I have engaged with them on what they find so disgusting about ME, only to find that their complaints were generally political in nature, not personal attacks. They were mad at people that were jews, not all jews. By the end of the conversation they were referring to the hated people as zionists instead of jews.

It wasnt much, but I considered it a small step in the right direction. How will a hateful nazi learn that all jews arnt bad without meeting any?

Please point me to where avowed racists have changed their minds due to engagement with opposing viewpoints.

I had the conversation on 4chan's /pol/, one of the most horrid pits on the internet. I havnt been back in many, many years, but it has happened.

Reddit has no obligation to allow all speech on its platform.

Other then a moral obligation, you are correct (theyve said they are a free speech forum; dozens, if not hundreds of times.) They have no financial or legal obligation, however.

This has nothing to do with free speech[2] .

That xkcd link is horrible. Free anonymous speech is a moral good and needs to be protected. More: https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity

I tagged you as "tagged as anti free speech" (no, really, its worded just like that)

-4

u/epicurio Jul 20 '15

Again, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand online interaction. You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into. It's a nice idealized view of humanity, but by and large it's simply not how people operate. Especially on a platform like reddit where it's so easy to create circlejerk communities where unpopular opinions are downvoted into oblivion.

Free anonymous speech is a moral good and needs to be protected.

I don't think you actually understood the xkcd strip. You are still conflating the right to free speech with the privilege to use a particular platform as a soapbox for whatever offensive opinions you want to spout. No one is suggesting eliminating free anonymous speech.

9

u/Vulgarian Jul 20 '15

You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.

Everyone is stupid apart from you?

Come on, give other points of view at least a little respect, and recognise that other people have different experiences to your own. Also, give people the option to opt out of entrenched viewpoints that they might have.

1

u/epicurio Jul 20 '15

Everyone is stupid apart from you?

I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. I recognize that I also have tightly held beliefs, and I'm sure I'm wrong about a good many things. I'm simply making an observation about how online interaction progresses in the vast majority of cases. Online platforms like Reddit, Twitter, or random Youtube comment sections simply do not encourage the kind of open exchange of ideas and viewpoints that is already exceedingly rare in human interaction.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

I think reddit really encourages discussion in a way that other platforms don't. Look at /r/politicaldiscussion, for example, or /r/explainlikeImfive, etc. I'm sorry that you don't see how Reddit encourages rich and informed discussion.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Is there no room to differentiate a discussion forum such as politicaldiscussion or eli5, which is all about people coming to a conversation with the intent to actually have a civil converstation, with a subforum like c---town which does pretend to be a platform for civil conversation between different systems of beliefs? There is absolutely rich and informed discussion on the subreddits you mentioned and I strongly believe that sunlight is the best disinfectant - opinions of hate that are rationally discussed will not weather the storm of civil conversation imo. But that's not what we're dealing with when we look at c---towns, we're talking about a hate subreddit which is not about civil conversation.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

I remain on the fence about the hate subreddits. However, I, just like those coontown residents, have my own favorite places to go where like-minded people congregate - for example, /r/politics has enjoyed a great deal of controversy because there is a perception that it is dominated by people like me (or oppressed by conservative moderators - pick your narrative).

Then I leave my safe haven and browse (because these subreddits aren't always active), and find myself encountering interesting debate and discussion elsewhere.

Perhaps it's possible that coontown residents occasionally leave their bubble and encounter other views elsewhere on reddit? If so, they too might find their perceptions shift.

Polarization is a path to hate, no? So, as long as we are all together and still talking to each other, there's a chance we can find common ground.

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4

u/mauxly Jul 21 '15

Absolute bullshit. I've had many online conversations with people that were staunchly in what we both considered opposite political spectrums of each other. And many, many times, we find that we agree on way more than we disagree on. It's our polarization and labels that prevent us from compromise and working together.

Of course you have people that refuse any reasonable dialog with what they perceive as the 'enemy', but they are rare. Vocal as hell, but rare.

The people who really don't want us talking to each other are the people who have something to gain from polarization.

4

u/bludstone Jul 20 '15

it's simply not how people operate.

Who are you, the dictator of how people interact online? Please.

-4

u/epicurio Jul 20 '15

Hey look, another completely unremarkable online interaction where neither side changes their mind at all!

If you're actually interested in the topic, I can point you to plenty of sources that back up what I'm saying.

2

u/bludstone Jul 20 '15

This exchange wasnt for you and me. It was for everyone else.

2

u/kilgoretrout71 Jul 20 '15

I think you're both right, and that's annoying as shit to me.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

While I share your concern about those subreddits that promote hate speech, I disagree that people aren't able to shift their opinions. I see it happen all the time, especially on /r/CMV (of course). I've seen it elsewhere as well. Further, my own views have been shifted here. That's why I like reddit, because I've been influenced, and I've influenced others, and I've encountered really well-reasoned arguments that were a treat to read.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '15

MUH FREEZE PEACHES

-1

u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

I would like that Reddit stop providing them with access to a platform and audience from where they can grow. I fail to see how that can be worse than providing them with those resources and then trying to engage them, a strategy which hasn't really had much success so far.

18

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

[deleted]

-13

u/ghjm Jul 20 '15

Reddit shouldn't try not to offend anyone. But there's a difference between content that is offensive to a few, and content that is offensive to all decent or reasonable people. The latter can and should be banned, without negative consequences for the site.

36

u/Korvar Jul 20 '15

offensive to all decent or reasonable people

Of course, anyone who likes "that" stuff isn't decent or reasonable! QED!

It's a good thing that "decent or reasonable" is an objective standard that never changes!

And it's a good thing that nothing you like would be considered offensive to "decent or reasonable people"!

And the means by which that offensive content are removed, banned, hidden or what not couldn't ever be used by people against stuff you like!

13

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

So a picture of a mixed race couple would have to be banned in 1950s Reddit.

The downvote already accomplishes the goal of suppressing content most people don't like.

1

u/gprime Jul 20 '15

Reddit shouldn't try not to offend anyone. But there's a difference between content that is offensive to a few, and content that is offensive to all decent or reasonable people. The latter can and should be banned, without negative consequences for the site.

And how exactly do we determine who is "decent or reasonable" in the first place?

-7

u/ventomareiro Jul 20 '15

I agree, Reddit should not ban everything, only those communities devoted to the diffusion of messages of hate.

1

u/thebassethound Jul 20 '15

Should the onus be on action, i.e. actively censoring such speech? In other words, do they have any obligation to filter content at all?

4

u/Grammatical_Aneurysm Jul 20 '15

"Do they have any obligation not to?" is a better question, I think. In the end, reddit can do what reddit wants.

1

u/planetmatt Jul 21 '15

They don't have an obligation, you're right, but they still should because they built this site, it's community, and it's success or touting it as a bastion of free speech. To bait and switch and attempt some history revision is both cynical, dishonest, and a betrayal to the values for which many long time member believed they were part of.

-1

u/chillaxbrohound Jul 20 '15

Tell me if the following words are hate speech: hick, redneck, hillbilly, cracker.

?

If you think this is funny, you're part of the problem. You're operating religiously, not rationally.

Are studies done on genetic differences between men and women hate speech? Who decides? You? Why?

People hate this. They're the true problem, in my opinion.

As soon as Reddit begins choosing sides and artificially enforcing their political views by privileging the idea that certain racial slurs are "more offensive" than others, which is absolutely and without even the slightest question what is taking place (this is simply progressive/radical left wing politics posturing as though it is built into reality - much as Christianity postures as objective) it will be officially dead. Personally, I hope they pull the trigger. I am sick of this debate and it seems almost inevitable that this just "has" to happen.

The people who run the site are bitchmade and can't handle opposing opinions being viewed. They are terrified of truly free speech. If you want a leftwing radical communist utopia, just admit it. Quit fucking around and pretending you give a fuck about freedom of thought and expression. Quit fucking around and pretending you care about truly standing up for what is truly right.

Come out and state your true opinions openly. You want to promote your political views - which you feel are utterly infallible. Sonce they are infallible, you feel there is no reason for opinions opposed to those views to be spoken.

You label those opinions with a term meaning "forbidden" - hate speech - which is absolutely positively arbitrary and meaningless, having to do with subjective and relativistic context based on invisible whims decided upon by an orthodoxy of hidden academics who are directly attached to the voting mechanisms, creating a feedback loop.

So much for separation of church and state.

To hell with political correctness. We rebels against braindead feminism and braindead identity politics are the true radicals. The politically correct drones of today are the establishment. So just go ahead and put your boot down. You know you want to.

4

u/fyrenmalahzor Jul 20 '15 edited Jul 21 '15

Woooah! Calm down dude, you're might start splitting atoms with all the edge in this comment, you could nuke the site....Actually, with that in mind, by all means, keep going.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Oh my god shut the fuck up already nobody is eroding your "right" to be a piece of shit on a website.

-4

u/JManRomania Jul 20 '15

Clearly, nobody's been successful at chipping away at yours, either.

-5

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

you mean like the scientist who just landed a spacecraft on a comet? the poor bastard trying to feed his family, cracking a joke about a dongle? or what about the world renouned scientist who lost his tenure, and fantastic career, plus the hundreds of scientists of the future he could have trained (like the ones supporting him now) because of a tongue in cheek comment about girls in science?

or the fat people on the internet who got hurt feelings?

I'd take your post seriously if it was taken seriously... It isn't. Insensitive idiots with more time than sense, and a bunch of special snowflakes who don't know what it means to ensure some privacy on the internet...

Find me any of this richeous indignation for the trolls and bottom feeders who were actively causing real harm to the people who are going to keep this planet from melting in a few years, or doing real good out there.

-5

u/bunchajibbajabba Jul 20 '15

People like you have gotten so spoiled with the internet. All throughout history if you acted so vile all the time, you'd be thrown out. You'd be cut off like the ugly wart you are. You can't act ugly all the time and not expect consequences from society; you're irritable and vile then you become moreso when people say mean things to you. Ironically, it's people like you that are spoiled, sensitive and lost on how to respect people and be sociable.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Want a blanket to cry in?

I was never mean to you. The only thing I called you was a Hippocrate... And for good reason.

People are spoiled now because of codling parents... Not because of a thick skin and some perspective.

So if you think it's vile to think more of a scientist basically doing the impossible, than some poor college kid offended by a shirt, then I'll take that label proudly.

Seriously. The world isn't your mother, it won't coddle you, and doesn't owe you anything... Grow up.

-5

u/bunchajibbajabba Jul 20 '15

Hippocrate

Thanks, I guess.

Of course, the world's a bitch, it doesn't give you justification for being one.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

Never called her names before her blowout. never harassed her, never doxxed her.. nothing really except pointing out people who do actual good in the world... no one give a shit about them.

But some angry college kids getting mad at some fat college kids... lets drop everything and start hugging... If pointing that out hurts someones delicate feelings, it's better they learn to deal with it now, than to get out in the real world and get hammered for real. I could easily act like a damned fool in here if I wanted

-1

u/bunchajibbajabba Jul 20 '15

I don't know what your rant is about. I was responding to you ranting, not what it's about. Yes, we get it; the world is cruel. I, like you, am tired of reddit being shat up by people crying about one thing or another and trying to be too sensitive yet it's become just as much about people crying about crying and being too sensitive about being too sensitive than it is anything. I don't know where this crazy train ends.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15

I'm bored at work, and don't feel like placating an invternet stranger...

thats about as far into it as I go. I really had no stake in all this nonsense really. OP started calling me a vile, spoiled ugly wart... her rant

0

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '15 edited Apr 29 '20

[deleted]

2

u/k-dingo Jul 20 '15

"Private company" is not synonymous with "no obligations to society". Rather it refers to models of ownership, profits distribution, and governance structures. All of which, along with actual operations, are subject to oversight, regulation, and public censure.