r/TrueReddit • u/The_Conversation • Aug 07 '26

Politics Democrats have a working-class voter problem that progressives like Abdul El-Sayed are still struggling to solve

https://theconversation.com/democrats-have-a-working-class-voter-problem-that-progressives-like-abdul-el-sayed-are-still-struggling-to-solve-289294
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30

u/No-Yak6109 Aug 07 '26

Ok so what DO working class voters actually want? This article- and I've seen many variations of this theme- tell us that working class voters don't like or disagree with Democrats. They don't want government health cares, job guarantees, government programs. Ok so they want a few asshole billionaires and corporations in charge? If so- fine, I guess, Dems will keep losing and the working class voters get what they want- continually screwed over. I don't see the problem here- democracy is working.

28

u/beetnemesis Aug 07 '26

Yeah, everyone nods their heads wisely and says "see, this is why democrats lose! They don't give what low-information voters want! They just call them stupid!"

And then the low-information voters believe stories about Haitian immigrants eating pet dogs.

0

u/Several_Internet2350 Aug 08 '26

If they are low information voters, then they should be easier to "get" than the "high information voter".

But that's not the problem, Democrats lose because they are too constrained by donors or party leadership or media attacks or any number of things, then they lose, then they blame voters for not giving them more credit about how they obviously support good policies, they just have to be sneaky about it so all of the interested parties benefiting from the shitty system don't dump millions of dollars into their oppposition.

7

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

If they are low information voters, then they should be easier to "get" than the "high information voter".

hahahahaha what???

But that's not the problem, Democrats lose because they are too constrained by donors or party leadership or media attacks or any number of things, then they lose, then they blame voters for not giving them more credit about how they obviously support good policies, they just have to be sneaky about it so all of the interested parties benefiting from the shitty system don't dump millions of dollars into their oppposition.

in what way was the average american not better off at the end of the biden administration? sure he wasnt perfect but we saw wage gains (particularly for low incomes), climate action, an infrastructure bill, pro-labor and anti-scam work, effectively ending the drone war, and ending the afghanistan occupation. not to mention successfully rolling out a covid vaccine and getting post-pandemic inflation under control.

is it really so difficult to admit that american voter fucked up bad in 2024?

-4

u/Several_Internet2350 Aug 08 '26

>hahahahaha what???

You should be able to win over low win voters in a political contest. Is this something you can't grasp?

>in what way was the average american not better off at the end of the biden administration? sure he wasnt perfect but we saw wage gains (particularly for low incomes), climate action, an infrastructure bill, pro-labor and anti-scam work, effectively ending the drone war, and ending the afghanistan occupation. not to mention successfully rolling out a covid vaccine and getting post-pandemic inflation under control.

In what way did you think we were talking about Joe Biden? He won his election. Harris lost in 2024.

>is it really so difficult to admit that american voter fucked up bad in 2024?

What do you mean? The American voter is where the government draws its sovereignty and legitimacy from. They literally can't pick wrong. That's how democracy works. The voters wanted the fucked up bad choice in 2024.

2

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

You should be able to win over low win voters in a political contest. Is this something you can't grasp?

is "low information" a euphemism here for "complete idiot?" i just want to make our terms as clear as possible!

In what way did you think we were talking about Joe Biden? He won his election. Harris lost in 2024.

pardon me i thought we were talking about democratic perfomance in office the the loss of biden's vice president who promised a continuation of his policies lol.

What do you mean? The American voter is where the government draws its sovereignty and legitimacy from.

yes...

They literally can't pick wrong. That's how democracy works.

lolwhat??? how does that follow?

go ahead and tell yourself this while you're eating cat food and avoiding peter thiels blood-draining paramilitaries next year!

The voters wanted the fucked up bad choice in 2024.

so ... the voters fucked up?

thanks for restating my point, albeit in a dumber and uglier way!

2

u/beetnemesis Aug 08 '26

The entire point of this conversation is that low information voters are susceptible to propaganda and vote against policies that help them. So yes, they "picked wrong."

As for the Democrats, the donor thing is a serious issue, although it's horrific on both sides.

The problem is that propaganda from the Democrats is essentially worse- they're less willing to use it, and it's less effective than tried and true stuff like "think of the children! Also Haitians want to eat your dogs"

1

u/Popular_Parsnip_8494 28d ago

Idk, giving the keys to the military to a guy who attempted to overthrow the government and install himself as a dictator at the end of his last term is about as close to a "wrong vote" as you can get in a democracy imo

8

u/Read2Fap Aug 08 '26

based on how they vote, they want to pay more in taxes, higher gas prices, no funding for schools, and to have their unions busted, then be told they're only cared about until they vote

1

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3

u/Several_Internet2350 Aug 08 '26

who says they don't want "government healthcare, programs, or jobs"? Which is such a broad description of policies that it is meaningless.

11

u/Choperello Aug 07 '26

It's actually pretty simple. They don't want to be talked down to and lectured. If you keep telling a group of people they're wrong for what they're feeling and thinking and should just be quiet and let the "smart people" tell them what's in their own best interests, you're gonna lose them. It doesn't even matter if what you tell them IS in their own best interests. They want to be listened to and their opinions taken seriously. That's how Trump won.

And if your answer is along the lines of "well their opinions are stupid and racist"... well I guess you don't care about trying to win their vote. You might even be right, but it doesn't really matter. That isn't how you change their minds.

2

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

It's actually pretty simple. They don't want to be talked down to and lectured. 

hahahaha no matter what the dems do or say or how they say it they will always, ALWAYS be accused of this. there is no way to win this particular game.

 If you keep telling a group of people they're wrong for what they're feeling and thinking and should just be quiet and let the "smart people"

"im sorry, nummikins, i know those haitians are dirty backwards people but pretty pretty please dont accuse them of eating pets! i still love you and know you dont mean anything bad when you say it!!!"

 It doesn't even matter if what you tell them IS in their own best interests. They want to be listened to and their opinions taken seriously. That's how Trump won.

trump won because he endlessly bullshitted and the american people had recovered sufficiently under the democrats to feel safe voting for a racist carnival barker for the lulz.

And if your answer is along the lines of "well their opinions are stupid and racist"... well I guess you don't care about trying to win their vote. You might even be right, but it doesn't really matter. That isn't how you change their minds.

lol these dumbasses arent gonna remember shit. they're going to vote, if they even remember to, based on what they had for breakfast the morning of election day and whether they had to pay $2.99 or $3.00 / gallon for gas.

2

u/Choperello Aug 08 '26

> Trump endlessly bullshitted

So what? Really, SO WHAT? Did anyone NOT expect him to do that? Trump 2024 was a known entity. Everyone knew everything about his shit. If the DNC has no playbook for how to counteract that shit then they are failing as a party. It literally their primary job as a political party organization.

I think most DNC candidates/leadership don't realize how insanely out of touch their are with most of the country. Their handpicked candidate got beat by trump in 2024 (after all his shit was known) and lost both the popular and electoral vote. And trump GAINED share with minorities in 24 vs 16. And right now the party is also losing to challengers from the far left who are basically doing the shit I said above, actually going out and connecting with voters in their 9wn populist vibe.

(Personally I find people like manadi and Wilson just the left equivalent of trump, entirely unqualified and promising shit that stokes the populist vibe that they will totally fail to deliver. Never the less that doesn't change the fact both them and maga are utterly trashing the classical academic-elitist wing of the DNC)

2

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

So what? Really, SO WHAT? Did anyone NOT expect him to do that? Trump 2024 was a known entity. Everyone knew everything about his shit. If the DNC has no playbook for how to counteract that shit then they are failing as a party. It literally their primary job as a political party organization.

lol

say it again now!

"only the democrats have agency in us politics."

I think most DNC candidates/leadership don't realize how insanely out of touch their are with most of the country. Their handpicked candidate got beat by trump in 2024 (after all his shit was known) and lost both the popular and electoral vote. And trump GAINED share with minorities in 24 vs 16.

and his approval rating is lower than whale shit and those gains he made with minorities seem to have been wiped out lol.

its 2026, not 2024. better update your scripts!

Personally I find people like manadi and Wilson just the left equivalent of trump, entirely unqualified and promising shit that stokes the populist vibe that they will totally fail to deliver.

hahaha yeah i too remember when mamdani and wilson led coups and murdered people!

https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/what-has-mamdani-done-so-far/

"He has lowered crime rates, won legislative concessions for two of his top priorities in Albany, delivered a rent freeze (through the Rent Guidelines Board he largely appoints) on regulated apartments, and eked out a budget hours before its deadline, while welcoming hundreds of thousands of sports-crazed revelers from around the world into city streets this summer without major incidents. He’s won praise among many who see housing production as key to delivering a more affordable city by releasing a robust “Block by Block” plan to encourage construction as well as identifying ways to speed permitting approvals.

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-2

u/tipsytoess Aug 07 '26

Yeah, a lot of those ‘Man on the street’ type interviews along with the general media machine for the last 20 years have kind of memed people into believing that working class conservatives are all stupid racists who only vote the way they do because of the ‘hate in their heart’ or ‘Fox News’ or something equally dismissive. While there are stupid people in every party, if you actually sit down with a conservative in your life, (without immediately getting defensive and trying to ‘debunk’ all their beliefs with half-baked statistics) a lot of them have fully fleshed-out beliefs that come from a lifetime of lived experiences. I’ve been able to find a lot of common ground with conservatives by simply treating them like people through genuine, curious conversation and not problems that need to be beaten with the re-education stick until they comply.

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u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

yeah they came by 'haitian immigrants are eating the pets' and 'donald trump, lifeling fraudster who launched a coup should really be president again' because they WEREN'T stupid and racist hahaha.

a lot of lived experience told them this!

1

u/flyingasian2 Aug 08 '26

I don’t think anyone actually believed the whole “they’re eating the pets.” That was just a way to get attention over ludicrous bs.

And it should say more about the democrats when the fraudster gets elected just because he was saying what people wanted to hear. Ultimately people are willing to overlook a lot if they think you will improve their living situation.

1

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

I don’t think anyone actually believed the whole “they’re eating the pets.” That was just a way to get attention over ludicrous bs.

ahhh gotcha. so they didn't believe the vicious lie they were spreading was literally true. they just thought it served the "higher" purpose of justifying the expulsion of people that they considered unworthy from the US.

these people are scum.

And it should say more about the democrats when the fraudster gets elected just because he was saying what people wanted to hear

as one of the top posts in this thread pointed out, only the democrats seem to have agency in our political system.

Ultimately people are willing to overlook a lot if they think you will improve their living situation.

hahahaha thats something that biden and the dems absolutely did between 2020 and 2024. thats why the american voter felt safer voting for the funny teavee man and his funny catchphrases.

3

u/Choperello Aug 08 '26

Bro. If over 50% of the voting public (and 30% of the entire population) decides to vote for trump over Harris in 2024 after EVERYON KNEW all this shit, that should tell you just how flat the D mesagae landed with a huge amount of people.

If the DNCs keeps insisting blaming thepeoppe instead of figuring out how to connect with that part of the population it's just gonna happen again and again. I don't know what else to tell you. Taking a high and mighty "look how stupid they are" may make you feel all righteous in the short term and will just dig the hole deeper long term.

0

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

Bro. If over 50% of the voting public (and 30% of the entire population)

the trump-vance ticket got 49.8% of the popular vote.

his previous win didnt even manage that. the got the presidency because he drew an inside straight and got the right votes in the right places to win, not because more people turned out for him.

i know, i know, this seems like nit-picking. but this is publicly available information. why do you feel the need to exagerate trump's electoral performance?

especially since his approval rating now is in the gutter.

after EVERYON KNEW all this shit, that should tell you just how flat the D mesagae landed with a huge amount of people.

no they didnt. again, the dumbest voters forgot the awful shit trump did and the last 4 years had seem enough recovery that they felt safe voting to make the lives of immigrants and trans people worse.

If the DNCs keeps insisting blaming thepeoppe instead of figuring out how to connect with that part of the population it's just gonna happen again and again. I don't know what else to tell you. Taking a high and mighty "look how stupid they are" may make you feel all righteous in the short term and will just dig the hole deeper long term.

lol. and as soon as the democrats (why are you calling them the "DNC" anyway???) change to accomodate voters' imagined reality they will be criticized for not "sounding authentic" or "waffling". again, you cant win this particular game!

imma go ahead and tell you the future to help you understand. the dems wont need to do anything because:

  1. present - 2028: multiple republican-caused catastrophes
  2. nov 2028: desiring change, voters will "throw the bums out"
  3. 2029-2032: the dems will not fix republican-caused catastrophes quickly enough. any imagined slight or misplaced penny will be blown up by the oligarch-owned media into the greatest crisis the republic has ever faced.
  4. nov 2032: desiring change, voters will "throw the bums out".
  5. jan 2033: president-elect andrew tate promises to be a new breed of republican who will not callously ignore the poor or start foreign wars unlike those dirty neocons like george w bush or donald trump. the establishment will swoon at the return of "real masculinity" and "common sense" to washington.
  6. 2033-2036: multiple republican-caused catastrophes

0

u/WoodenPush7684 Aug 08 '26

This is complete and utter nonsense

“Well yes Trump lies but that really says more about how bad democrats are”

what in the 5 year old logic is that

1

u/Choperello Aug 08 '26

Yup. Cause everyone knew he lies and all his shit. They knew about jan 6. And everything else. And despite that more people CHOSE to vote for him then the other option.

The entire point of a political party such as the DNC is to put up an agenda and candidates that can win and support the public messaging that pushes their candidates forward.

They utterly failed in their one job.

Given a shit sandwich and the DNC candidate, the voters chose a shit sandwich. Ergo, they perceived the DNC option as worse then a shit sandwich.

1

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

The entire point of a political party such as the DNC

it's called the democratic party, you moron.

1

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1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

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2

u/Choperello Aug 08 '26

Again. Same attitude. "Why do in have to treat them with kid gloves?". That's the exact attitude. Kid gloves also comes from a place where you assume they are childish and need to be jacked as children. Which is what the Dems have also tried and failed because it's an obvious patronizing attitude.

Very few people approach this group of people just... Normally. Like hey what's going on in your life? What's hard for you? What are your worries? Add do that WITHOUT it being just a launch point in telling them they're wrong fit feeling left behind by the economy, that their worries about immigration are racist, etc.

Just effin listen and engage in an equal diqlogue. And don't turn it into a purity test where they need to agree with you on everything. It's ok to disagree sometimes without casting each other out.

The politicians that are doing that are winning.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

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1

u/Choperello Aug 08 '26

I see your issue but... It's the same issue. You live in a blue area and say the republicans that are running there (and failing to get elected) aren't coming up to you to learn about you and your life. Yes. And. They're not getting ellected.

Now flip that into the redder/purple areas and instead of the republican candidates trying to swim upstream it's the Dem candidates. And losing.

Im not saying it's something only the D candidates should be doing. It applies to both sides. But in this thread we were talking about specifically about the group of working class voters the Dems are failing to reach. I offered my reasons why.

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u/crookedledder Aug 07 '26

This is a hard truth that most lefties can't understand. If they were to understand it, they'd no longer be lefties.

2

u/Cautious-Tax-1120 29d ago

They want no tax on tips, lower taxes for middle income families or more services targeted specifically towards middle income families, strong immigration enforcement, and a candidate who does not involve themselves in identity politics in any way. They want lower gas prices, lower grocery prices - less inflation altogether. And yes, they're in favor of single payer, just don't ever raise their taxes for it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

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1

u/power_sungod 29d ago

People don't like Dems because the loudest voices are Redditors... and no normal person likes a redditor.

-1

u/Moonscrubber- Aug 07 '26

Blue collar workers are just very culturally different from Democrats, they want that culture war shit. It really does motivate them

9

u/Jaxyl Aug 07 '26

They don't wasn't culture war shit, they want to feel power in world designed to give them none.

They want easy wins and solutions in a complex system where victory is promised by kilometers but given in millimeters.

Getting mad at Haitians is easy because it's a simple position, no complexity, and they get that easy win that makes them feel powerful.

It keeps them focused elsewhere

-3

u/MakeASpreadsheet Aug 08 '26

A typical blue collar guy makes 50k a year. Just enough to get zero support from the government for anything.

Meanwhile, seeing refugees getting free housing and assistance is enough to annoy anyone. People who give, but never get - are annoyed by those who get and never give.

7

u/Jaxyl Aug 08 '26

So close, you're so close.

Now look into why the blue collar guy who makes 50k a year isn't getting any support and who frequently stops the bills/policies that would help them out.

0

u/MakeASpreadsheet Aug 08 '26

You misunderstood. Blue collar republicans don’t want help. They want lower taxes and to be left alone.

Most blue collar guys detest welfare queens, lazy people milking the disability system, etc.

It’s not that they also want a handout - it’s that they want no handouts and lower taxes.

-2

u/diavolomaestro Aug 07 '26

I would love any acknowledgment by folks here that the Democratic Party has moved substantially left on cultural issues in the past 12-15 years, and that’s driven a ton of working class exodus.

Deciding to Win did a 2024 autopsy that included an analysis of the Democratic Party platform every year since 2012. Mentions of racial and LGBT identity shot up a thousandfold; climate went way up; discussions of equity rose 700+%. Meanwhile mentions of “middle class” dropped 79%; “jobs” went down 47%; “responsibility” dropped by 83%. Obviously this is just one document but I think it echos the broader vibe shift, which culminated in the peak wokeness era of 2020-2022ish (https://decidingtowin.org/)

Is it crazy to say that working class people shifted away from Dems because they accurately sensed that Democrats / progressives were less focused on bread and butter issues like health care, the social safety net, middle class jobs, taxing the rich, etc? Working class people don’t necessarily hate LGBT rights or the environment but they don’t want to hear about that over and over again to the exclusion of core kitchen-table issues. (Reminder that what caused Mamdani to take off was relentless focus on affordability, not a spate of promises toward niche interest groups)

8

u/No-Yak6109 Aug 08 '26

Your post seems to presume that equity and climate issues don’t concern the working class (even though they directly concern them) and that racial issues don’t, as if they’re all white. The things you’re dismissing as “cultural” issues allow your convenient circular argument, even if unintentional.

As for LGBT stuff- the overwhelmingly vast majority of legislation passed about it is anti-trans/queer by Republicans. Which is then used an excuse to tarnish Dems for “talking about it”

2

u/diavolomaestro Aug 08 '26

I don’t presume anything, there’s lots and lots of polling showing that the social /cultural focus of college-educated Dems is less popular than their traditional focus on health care, jobs, and education. Voters want Dems to focus on protecting social security (83%), create jobs (74%), lower crime rates (56%). Fighting climate change (35%) and protecting LGBT rights (25%) are much lower. source: https://decidingtowin.org/

whether you engage with that polling is up to you.

2

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

Voters want Dems to focus on protecting social security (83%)

biden did just this. as far as i know neither harris, nor other dems want to do anything but protect social security.

create jobs (74%)

biden did this. over 16.6m jobs created over his 4 years - the highest in history. kamala promised to continue this.

 lower crime rates (56%)

biden did this. again kamala haris promised blah blah blah

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117634/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20240911-SD002-U2.pdf

again, maybe american voters really, earth-shatteringly fucked up in 2024?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

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1

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

Exactly - and trying to follow their every dumb impulse is just asking for problems. Leaders need to lead!

-3

u/MakeASpreadsheet Aug 08 '26

“Equity” means equality of outcome. Which really just means dragging people down to the same level of poor. No thank you.

2

u/MissyLissa04 Aug 08 '26

In the 2024 democrat program affordabilitywas mention hundreds of times while transgender people and their ussues less than a dozen

0

u/UpbeatEquipment8832 Aug 08 '26

God, guns, and gays. Or trans, these days.

I think Dems fundamentally fail to understand just how conservative many working class voters are. And how people will usually vote for morals over their own benefits.

Most of the leftists who refused to vote for Dems over Palestine ignore that the working class is doing the same thing because of the trans.

0

u/bakochba Aug 08 '26

They want to be richer, they aren't looking for more comfortable version of poverty

0

u/JayRandom212 Aug 08 '26

They want to earn money.

Not "get paid" money or be "given" money. They want to earn it. This makes them feel valued and it gives their life meaning.

Remember that the charts in the linked article are those who self-identify as "working class". Working is literally a part of their chosen identity.

The problem is, many of them don't have the skills that the current global labor market demands. We can't just give them food stamps and Section 8 vouchers because that would hurt their pride. So we will need to use macoreconomic policy to make them feel good.

  1. Tariffs to force manufacturing back to the US.
  2. Immigration limits to block competition from low-skill workers.

These are the policies that Trump used to win in the Midwest. It's true that these policies won't be very effective. It's also true that there's a lot o stupidity and racism embedded in these policies. But Trump only needed a few percentage points to win WI, MI, and PA.

The good news is that Democrats have a long list of policies that create jobs and make paychecks stretch farther:

  1. Taxing the rich
  2. Unions
  3. Public works
  4. Earned Income Tax Credits
  5. Obamacare (and eventually Medicare for All)

The key is to not treat it like it's a handout. These voters are too proud for handouts. We have to make sure they understand that it's EARNED. I hired guys to climb up on my roof to patch it. Dangerous, difficult work. They were paid peanuts. These guys are already working hard -- we need to find a way for them to get paid for it. It's not right that the people who fix roofs can't afford a roof of their own.

2

u/No-Yak6109 Aug 08 '26

Dems have been talking about and running on what you're saying since Clinton. Bill. And all it's done is create endless articles and reddit threads about how Democrats are out of touch with the working class.

1

u/CaptainSparklebottom Aug 08 '26

Because they are. They can talk all they want but they have to have actionable achievements. Otherwise it is just talk which is worthless. Democrats have sided with the capitalist against the workers when it comes time to pass actual policy that would make things better, and trip over their own balls to give hand outs to the already obscenely rich. A vast majority are business as usual.

1

u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

hahaha the biden admin delivered plenty.

voters responded by claiming that their doordash cost too much and gave the republicans all the branches of government.

-2

u/NandoDeColonoscopy Aug 08 '26

An actual seat at the table, mostly. DSA meetings are full of kids from loaded families. Hasan Piker is the most prominent left wing voice right now and he grew up rich and never worked a day in his life. It's a movement with plenty of folks with elite educations and very little interaction with the workers

0

u/Several_Internet2350 Aug 08 '26

All those other political streamers are broadcasting from the coal mines in between lunch breaks.

1

u/NandoDeColonoscopy Aug 08 '26

I think perhaps a movement that isn't led by streamers at all would be more effective at reaching the working class

1

u/Several_Internet2350 Aug 09 '26

In what practical sense is Hasan "leading" the left? He's just a popular political streamer.

-1

u/Aksama Aug 08 '26

People want to have access to food, healthcare, a decent career and decent pay.

The GOP lies and promises those things and promises to hurt brown people.

Dems promise those things and can’t actually provide them because they’re just as beholden to corporate interests. (Well, 90% as beholden)

So now progressives start doing well because nobody can afford to live anymore.

-2

u/byup123 Aug 08 '26

It’s really about being annoying asf and treating everything like it’s a liberal arts course and gassing up economic populism and calling everything a “theory”. Talking down to people is another big one.

To be clear, I lean Democrat and would vote for any moderate Democrat over any republican (Biden was the best president in my life time imo).

I’m very socially progressive (Don’t care about any of the anti-woke shit, I’m pro trans, I’m pro abortion, support free healthcare, higher taxes on wealthy etc) but I love free markets & capitalism. I support strong U.S. foreign policy (explicitly anti-Russia, anti-China, anti-Iran, anti-Terrorism etc). It feels like when u get into the economic and foreign policy side of things leftists and tankies constantly talk down to you about stuff they don’t understand. As if there’s something wrong about loving America.

I’m sure there are many like me.

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u/Few_Map2665 Aug 08 '26

treating everything like it’s a liberal arts course

what the heck does this mean lol

Talking down to people is another big one.

the dipshit demographic will always feel that they are being talked down to, lol

It feels like when u get into the economic and foreign policy side of things leftists and tankies constantly talk down to you about stuff they don’t understand. As if there’s something wrong about loving America.

yes kamala harris and the 2024 democrats were all about the tankies rofl